Post by halibutholysoap on Feb 24, 2015 23:49:48 GMT -5
Works at EA, The Sims.
Zineth!
Zineth Pages.
(search through documents on computer)
Transcript AIM
July 18, 2013
10:34:18 PM moxanot: William Dickie <<<
11:16:11 PM noxioushamster: hey!
11:16:13 PM noxioushamster: how's it going?
11:25:53 PM moxanot: Hey Tom, going well.
11:26:39 PM moxanot: you?
11:26:54 PM noxioushamster: Cool. I'm doing pretty good too. Sorry I haven't been online that much this week.
11:32:26 PM moxanot: Hey no worries, I wasn't online this last weekend either. Zine^th takes time anyways, I know. There's a balance between doing stuff and doing nothing that, if maintained, gives you time enough to finish your work while also having enough time to think on what you want to throw in there.
11:33:42 PM moxanot: I'm happy that you enjoyed the first one enough to contribute! Also I'm glad to get some blessing from you since I named it after your game.
11:35:36 PM noxioushamster: Yeah, I liked the first issue a lot! I know Jacob was really into it too. I think all of us thought it was pretty funny that you went with the title Zine^th.
11:42:16 PM moxanot: Yea I mean (getting heavy vegetable for a second) you guys inspired me. I was impressed by the professionalism, the handling of its release and the i followed it all through the awards and everything. So cool to see it blow up and to see how the game public reacted to it. It just made me want to connect all these talented people I've met, get them familiar with each other and try to devise something for them to understand each other better.
11:45:05 PM moxanot: If more multidisciplinary teams work together it seems like a good thing. So zineth I see really as a thing for between peers. Where the contributors offer a coda of their experience for people of different backgrounds. I think if they meet where they are happiest, they will be more liikely to understand each other and maybe work together. But even without that, just to see things from different perspectives. blahblahbalbhalbha I could use a Russel + Ben explanation for all of that shit
11:45:23 PM moxanot:
11:46:47 PM moxanot: Everyone is everyone's tutor.
11:51:23 PM noxioushamster: Woah, that's really awesome to hear (though funny you mention professionalism, because I'm pretty sure we felt like the least professional people ever during a lot of development and beyond)! I like the idea behind Zine^th a lot. It's always really cool to hear how other people approach things and hear why they do what they do the way they do it. Communities and groups where the contributers are too similar to eachother get boring fast! I know that a lot of times I project my own ideas and motives and strategies onto other people, so I always like it when I get the chance to see things from the point of view of a different mind.
11:52:47 PM moxanot: Well the professionalism was in the way you were not professional in certain ways, but only the ways that counted.
11:54:14 PM moxanot: Despite taking the piss out of twitter, you guys used it really well I think. And the website was simple but cool. You didn't get too excited and spout a ton of bunk. It was all controlled feeling. I mean you guys just know the game community well enough to have an admirable stance when faced with it.
11:59:36 PM noxioushamster: Haha, yeah that's a really interesting way to put it. I always feel weird talking for the group, but I think we all really cared about making an awesome game, and wanted people to play it. What we didn't care about was pretending to be something we weren't. We were a group of dumb college students making something neat, and it would've been wrong to try and give any other impression.
12:00:18 AM moxanot: haha yeah.
12:05:55 AM moxanot: I don't expect to this issue, but I'd like to have the Arcane Kids in an issue sometime. I guess that's weirdly diffuse though. I don't know if there's one theme or perspective of Arcane Kids. But I'm going to publish something as howLAB in Zine^th about garbage to gold and blue economy and stuff. Just thought I'd mention it.
12:06:04 AM moxanot: What do you personally want to demonstrate for people of other disciplines? Arcane Kids aside.
12:06:35 AM noxioushamster: Yeah, that'd be really cool!
12:07:18 AM noxioushamster: Arcane Kids is such a weird entity.
12:08:40 AM noxioushamster: Would you mind expanding the question a bit? Like, demonstrate something in terms of a practical skill, or a concept or what?
12:10:45 AM moxanot: Influences in games, music, literature, etc? Influences from family life, friends, etc? What do you think people should know about game design? How does it relate to your regular life, inform it? Lessons you've learned? A demonstration of your personal knowledge that can be shared.
12:11:27 AM moxanot: You so don't have to answer this minute. I am going to bed sewn. Sewn as blankets and coats.
12:11:52 AM noxioushamster: Haha, cool I'll try to put some thoughts together now though, while I'm already in the right mood for it.
12:13:00 AM moxanot: Yeah. Yeah! you know good thought, a tutorial to do something simple…. on ben's tumblr he has a link for "make games now". I like that. What makes games important and how can you introduce anyone to the subject I suppose. If someone were you, they would understand because they'd have had your experiences….hmmmmm
12:13:31 AM moxanot: I guess your audience is your friends.
12:13:48 AM moxanot: Friends that don't have your code, that do other shit
12:14:06 AM moxanot: haha is this too much? do you want more? less?
12:14:19 AM moxanot: more specific, less
12:14:22 AM noxioushamster: Haha this is great, I know how to approach this I think.
12:14:27 AM moxanot: ok cool
12:14:42 AM moxanot: and, have you looked at the forum? I have more resources there.
12:15:15 AM noxioushamster: I have looked at it, but not today. I remember it has info about how to lay out my page and the general themes of the issue and stuff.
12:17:07 AM moxanot: Ya, there's also a page of interview questions and ideas if you're hungry. If not, I will probably ask some of them for the final pages. It'll be like the first issue, your pages and my interview of you. You have anything I can research about you, just make a post in the Zine*th board and I'll follow it.
12:18:04 AM noxioushamster: Ok cool. I tried going to the sample interview questions page but it didn't work for me. Do I have to be registered to the forum or something to see it?
12:18:46 AM moxanot: ooo boy, thanks for telling me. maybe
12:19:05 AM noxioushamster: actually, it looks like it's just trying to send me to http:///
12:19:20 AM noxioushamster: same with your first link under "The Structure" section
12:19:29 AM moxanot: oooo
12:22:03 AM moxanot: derp im not supposed to use quotation marks
12:22:12 AM moxanot: thanks for telling me!
12:22:23 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, sorry for not mentioning it earlier!
12:22:50 AM moxanot: No one else did either. hahaha
12:23:18 AM noxioushamster: haha, maybe everyone thought it was intentional
12:23:21 AM noxioushamster: that you were making a statement
12:23:22 AM moxanot: lol
12:23:43 AM moxanot: Yeah I get the feeling people read into all of my expressions too
12:24:08 AM noxioushamster: I think it's hard not to. You type with such purpose!
12:24:15 AM moxanot: "Why did you look at me with meaning just then?" "O I was just checking to see how you were doing."
12:24:47 AM moxanot: Yeah I can do gangster style too. Look:
12:24:50 AM noxioushamster: Woah. What's that from?
12:25:06 AM moxanot: that's from me doin stuff with people, then talking to them about it
12:25:17 AM moxanot: *showcases a pistol*
12:25:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:26:06 AM moxanot: Tom, do you also know why my forum avatar is squished? Does that also seem like its on purpose? or*
12:26:48 AM moxanot: Or*
12:27:06 AM noxioushamster: Haha, well whether or not it was on purpose, you chose to leave it that way, so it says something.
12:27:34 AM moxanot: haha maybe that's why I have been enjoying deep listening
12:28:02 AM moxanot: 60s people and their ears...
12:28:13 AM noxioushamster:
12:28:31 AM moxanot: deeplistening.org/site/
12:28:56 AM noxioushamster: did you take the deep listening class at RPI?
12:29:09 AM moxanot: I just audited one this summer.
12:29:21 AM moxanot: It was deep listening and electronic music
12:29:38 AM moxanot: very cool. then i got invited to work at the conference.
12:29:44 AM noxioushamster: oh cool
12:29:57 AM moxanot: I felt like I was at a convergence of hearing superheros
12:31:13 AM moxanot: We went on a *sound walk* where a bunch of 50+ people walk around listening to the environment. I followed a physics-deep listening guy and he led me to a tree stump which was being vomited on and decomposed by house flies. I didn't expect to learn that. And a woman who talks about deep listening to your dreams. Quite a trip.
12:31:15 AM moxanot: deeplistening.org/cgi-bin/dreamsack.cgi
12:31:23 AM moxanot: ^put a dream in, get one back
12:31:55 AM noxioushamster: woah, that actually sounds pretty neat
12:32:23 AM noxioushamster: dreams for the dream festival
12:33:01 AM moxanot: Yeah she found research where they record the movement of ear drums during dreaming. I guess the mind invents sound as well as images in dreams, and it might be able to be mapped and played. Eerie. Thought reading!
12:33:27 AM noxioushamster: woah
12:33:54 AM noxioushamster: i would love to hear someone's dream sounds
12:34:11 AM moxanot: My mom finds it confusing that I don't just apply to HCI jobs. But I haven't told her yet that people can read thoughts by ear drum vibrations.
12:34:37 AM noxioushamster: it changes thins
12:34:38 AM moxanot: If the world is actually as weird as it seems, it makes no sense to get a real job at all
12:34:41 AM noxioushamster: things*
12:34:43 AM moxanot:
12:35:05 AM noxioushamster: speaking as someone who has a real job, fuck real jobs
12:35:52 AM moxanot: Yea I tried to be in limbo, real job with film makers who seem to invent realities…but it sucked too. Too far away from me, like Sting.
12:36:01 AM moxanot: “I am interested in fostering a Dream Community. Dreams are our deepest source of creativity and dreams are always truthful about our feelings. Since all humans and most animals dream, sharing dreams and dream creations can help dissolve the cultural and class demarcations that keep us separate from one another. Dream awareness can help us lead more authentic lives. “
- Ione
12:37:08 AM moxanot: I saw this lady in person. She should be with the Muses at the base of Mount Olympus. Her hair was like medusa if she dreadlocked the snakes and formed them into an orb on her head.
12:38:21 AM noxioushamster: you've probably seen this before, but just in case
12:38:23 AM noxioushamster: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD_%28video_game%29
12:38:43 AM noxioushamster: it's the neatest thing
12:39:11 AM noxioushamster: the original game came with a copy of the creator's dream journal that inspired the content and illustrations for each entry
12:39:40 AM moxanot: ooo that is the BEST! i gotta get a PS2 emulator for my computer.
12:40:13 AM noxioushamster: there are a lot of games i admire, but very few that i actually wish i had made.
12:40:35 AM noxioushamster: this is one that makes me anxious just thinking about how great it is.
12:42:23 AM moxanot: haahah right! it's the kind of game that would get my reality-ignoring organs dancing and telling me : "Billy! You can make a game all by yourself! A film too! A tv series!" Recently I'm learning to ignore these anxieties…and focus on what I actually enjoy doing hahah.
12:43:15 AM noxioushamster: (tbf you totally can make a game by yourself but you should also definitely focus on what you enjoy)
12:44:18 AM moxanot: (i would love to make an rpg on my own!)
12:44:47 AM moxanot: I'm gonna slip off to watch an episode of wilfred and then go to bed. But by the wayside, I'm looking for someone to do art and stuff for an olskoo RPG i'm helping design with some peeps. If you know anyone who is looking for free association and like old RPGs, lemme know.
12:45:50 AM noxioushamster: cool, I'll definitely hit you up if I find someone looking!
12:46:43 AM noxioushamster: i'd be interested to hear about the game sometime btw
12:48:15 AM moxanot: cool. long story go-gurt: final fantasy, chrono trigger, zelda, earthbound, Xanth, secrets of mana, space funeral
12:48:28 AM noxioushamster: you had me at space funeral
12:48:39 AM moxanot: hahah yeah i had myself too
12:49:02 AM moxanot: the other guys are more traditional, I'm the earthbound, space funeral, xanth guy
12:49:13 AM moxanot: trying to make the game not a lord of the rings rip off
12:49:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:49:31 AM noxioushamster: well that's definitely a worthy fight
12:49:55 AM moxanot: they want to do multiplayer, pokemon world share style
12:50:03 AM moxanot: oh yeah pokemon too*
12:50:13 AM noxioushamster: wow, this is starting to sound super ambitious
12:50:17 AM moxanot: I wish I could apply to work at Game Freak
12:50:22 AM moxanot: lol
12:50:38 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah I dunno what game freak's hiring policy is
12:50:52 AM moxanot: yeah, I get ambitious when i go out to buy ice cream though
12:51:09 AM noxioushamster: haha, i can relate
12:51:42 AM moxanot: so far I have won on making our female character more bad ass and less helpless, which i can not stand
12:51:50 AM moxanot: white mages suck
12:52:08 AM moxanot: so we flip her moves to be like "Cauterize" which can burn enemies, heal allies
12:52:20 AM noxioushamster: oh interesting
12:52:42 AM noxioushamster: yeah we definitely don't need more helpless woman characters in games
12:53:23 AM moxanot: If someone is a princess, they are going to be Princess Bubblegum at least
12:53:36 AM noxioushamster: haha i like that mission statement
12:55:14 AM moxanot: ok cool. I'm glad I caught up with you. Send me stuff if you want to kick it around. g'night + good luck
12:55:29 AM noxioushamster: yeah, cool talking to you
12:55:31 AM noxioushamster: good night
12:56:05 AM moxanot: R.B.A.u!
12:56:08 AM moxanot: At ease.
1:29:59 AM moxanot: RBAUL, have you been tossing and turning in sleepless nights thinking about what you revealed to me in our last conversation?
1:30:22 AM moxanot: *inquisition face*
1:33:33 AM noxioushamster: oh no! that question totally slipped my mind this week.
1:33:38 AM moxanot: Or less paranoid yet, thinking about what you want to put in Zineth?
1:34:07 AM moxanot: Wow you knew I was going to ask that??
1:34:28 AM moxanot: brb. This is eerie, I'm gonna eat a pineapple sugar-ring.
1:34:49 AM noxioushamster: haha wait, no, I was responding to your previous question
1:34:51 AM noxioushamster: unless
1:35:01 AM noxioushamster: you typed that earlier and it just got sent now
1:35:18 AM noxioushamster: v spooky
1:35:48 AM noxioushamster: I feel like, the biggest piece of advice I would give about game design is
1:35:56 AM noxioushamster: Never trust anyone who claims to know about game design
1:36:50 AM moxanot: what if voldemort steve jobs says it?
1:37:13 AM noxioushamster: i think we can all agree on certain exceptions
1:37:35 AM moxanot: Like the guy in the videos for the doublefine kickstarter?
1:38:22 AM moxanot: Or Russel's boss, the guy who made flow and journey? or the people from game freak or nintendo?
1:39:53 AM moxanot: Not even Ben Esposito?
1:40:06 AM moxanot: you?
1:40:16 AM moxanot: ^-^
1:40:22 AM noxioushamster: haha, I mean, obviously lots of people know really useful and important things about game design, and obviously some people know more than others, but there are so many different approaches to it. There are people you can learn from, but game design is a soft skill, not a hard skill.
1:40:30 AM noxioushamster: DEFINITELY don't trust me
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1:50:45 AM moxanot: hahah, Damn I was hoping you were going to say they suck, because they're not you. but I'm glad you didn't because it would feel like CNN
1:50:57 AM moxanot: "they suck because they're not you"
1:51:09 AM moxanot: but I'm anticipating this message you're writing
1:51:23 AM noxioushamster: I feel like, game design is such a bizarre and malleable thing. Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design. Sometimes things that are bad are good, but sometimes not. Games will come out that people love, but those same people will freely admit to massive game design failings. In no way am I qualified to talk about game design. Game design is an impossibility. People can't even agree on what a game IS.
1:52:01 AM moxanot: haha there we go
1:52:06 AM noxioushamster: haha
1:52:11 AM noxioushamster: I dunno if that makes sense
1:52:22 AM moxanot: Do you have a website with your own experience designs?
1:52:38 AM moxanot: Because I think that game design is just experience design in most cases.
1:52:56 AM noxioushamster: yeah that's a good way of putting it
1:53:13 AM moxanot: dodgeball seems liek a game, but is it a social selection thing in disguise?
1:53:17 AM noxioushamster: i think the word "game" gets a lot of people caught up
1:54:48 AM noxioushamster: i have a website, but it doesn't have much of value
1:54:54 AM moxanot: Anyhoo, I know Ben obviously, and I know the Arcane Kids style idea mixes with NO BACKSIES style, in which something realyl bad can turn out awesome. It's just like "I Want my people to experience being an old woman and having to carry grocery bags while walking on ice"
1:55:22 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, definitely
1:55:24 AM moxanot: It's not the point to make the gameplay amazing or even the graphics, maybe the sound, but the point is where else are you ever going to be able to try that
1:56:45 AM moxanot: Not that experience design is a possibility either. No one can agree on what an experience is other than listing the senses they possess according to psychology research in science.
1:57:16 AM moxanot: well literary definitions too, but basically it's super general, like the word " Thing"
1:58:08 AM noxioushamster: and that's the thing, right? sometimes it IS about the amazing "gameplay" or the graphics, and that's ok too I think. Not everyone likes experimental games and joke games and "notgames", and not everyone wants to make things like that.
1:59:27 AM noxioushamster: so you have all kinds of people all approaching "game design" in a very different way, and while there are things you can learn from all of them, no one's word is, or should be at least, game design gospel
2:00:28 AM moxanot: Right, you said it's a soft skill. What is the difference between hard and soft skills?
2:03:10 AM moxanot: where else are you going to see gameplay like this, where will you ever see graphics like this, or the visceral feeling of john madden telling you your meaty men are doing well on the field
2:04:21 AM moxanot: 1. "Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design." An example in which you did something dumb and horrible that was worthwhile.
2:04:27 AM noxioushamster: The line is blurred in a lot of cases, but a hard skill can be something like fixing a car. You have this car and it's battery has died and it won't run. So in order to get it to run you need to replace the battery and you've accomplished your goal. You can go to school and learn how to solve all sorts of car problems and you can very easily measure someone's automotive fixing skills. A soft skill, like game design, isn't really something that's easy to measure. There's no right answer to most game design questions. It's all very subjective.
2:04:41 AM moxanot: 2. Are you worried about any certain people's opinions becoming game design gospel?
2:05:08 AM noxioushamster: let me answer 2 first because I have an answer to that right off the bat
2:05:12 AM moxanot: kk
2:05:15 AM noxioushamster: Yes
2:06:33 AM moxanot: Before you answer, be warned that people tend to choose a leader. Especially in mass media situations. Games are slowly becoming a mass medium of procedural learning. So this is an important question, since someone WILL become the gospel for certain demographics or industries.
2:07:34 AM moxanot: I think I've noticed it happen in history often. Of course, in TV and film, it cycles and changes, but there's never anyone saying "everyone can do this, and everyone should and spore is not better than the sims and none of them are better than the worst game."
2:08:38 AM moxanot: omg i want a snack, brb
2:11:45 AM noxioushamster: I think it's dangerous for the medium if people just take all their game design knowledge from the same pool of people. It's all about what's right for the game, the experience, that you want to craft. It would be boring if everyone approached every experience the same way. That's why outsider art is so interesting, right? Different or half-formed understandings and perspectives can give way to very important and interesting, even if deeply flawed, things.
2:23:33 AM noxioushamster: As far as something I've done that was horrible but ultimately worthwhile, Zineth is honestly a great example. We had three programmers on that project, but didn't set up source control. This meant that none of us could edit the same files at the same time without it being a massive pain and workflow issue. Our way around this was to basically to embrace feature creep. That's the reason the cellphone in zineth was as complex and full featured as it is. That's the reason we made physical zine pages, scanned them and hid them throughout the desert. That's the reason there's cacti and NPCs you can battle and a hawk you can ride. Instead of doing the smart thing and making a reasonably sized game with a very focused feature set, we created some gigantic lumbering skeleton with ten thousand half-formed limbs. What we did was probably really bad game design, and it certainly was born from bad practice, but without that stuff, zineth wouldn't be the same experience.
2:26:35 AM moxanot: That's so cool.
2:26:53 AM moxanot: NoxiousHampster, how did you think of this screen name?
2:27:03 AM noxioushamster: lol
2:27:11 AM moxanot: lol
2:27:35 AM noxioushamster: freshman year a few of us played warcraft III custom maps a lot, and we changed our usernames every time we started a new map, because it let you do that
2:27:44 AM noxioushamster: this one came up at one point and I liked it
2:27:47 AM noxioushamster: now I hate it
2:27:49 AM noxioushamster: but it's too late
2:28:52 AM moxanot: can i show you something? It might take about 15 minutes. I want to show you Ways of Seeing Episode 3 (at least the beginning 10 mins), and ask you how this applies to your idea of outsider art being interesting and flawed things being valuable, and people drawing their game design knowledge from the same pool of people.
2:28:56 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7wi8jd7aC4
2:29:21 AM moxanot: Let me know when you hit play, and I'll watch along with you.
2:29:32 AM noxioushamster: lemme read the description first
2:29:45 AM moxanot: no
2:30:02 AM moxanot: It's not that important. It's not a reference, just an idea
2:30:09 AM noxioushamster: haha oh ok
2:30:11 AM moxanot: I will ask it independently of the video
2:30:16 AM noxioushamster: ok then
2:30:17 AM noxioushamster: 3
2:30:17 AM noxioushamster: 2
2:30:18 AM noxioushamster: 1
2:33:32 AM moxanot: "art galleries are like palaces, but they are also like banks." do you think people gave up at this point when it was first shown? or were they like "ohhh shittt! brain fuckkkk"
2:33:41 AM moxanot: ^not the question yet
2:39:29 AM moxanot: oh stop!!
2:39:37 AM noxioushamster: !
2:39:40 AM moxanot: haha
2:39:41 AM moxanot: oops
2:39:46 AM moxanot: i got lost in asking the question
2:39:53 AM moxanot: Is outsider art the new oil painting?
2:40:08 AM noxioushamster: wow
2:40:15 AM noxioushamster: let me think about this while i go pee
2:40:18 AM moxanot: lol
2:40:20 AM moxanot: Are games not curated only by the "experts" the mark of new value because they are deeply flawed and also deeply valuable? How does your vision of games it place importance of value, as oil paintings show the emphasis of the real being solid, based on the scientific attitude and the sense of ownership?14
2:40:47 AM moxanot: as oil paintings show value in the emphasis of ...***
3:02:28 AM noxioushamster: I'd say it's almost the opposite. With oil paintings it seems like you get real broad strokes. If i'm understanding the video correctly, you look at the body of paintings as a whole and see what was valued and the attitudes of the population. With outsider games, you maybe have to look at each work individually. With most games you get glimpses of the designers, but it's hard for informed people to not fall into the trap of tried and true game design. With outsider games you really see what people find interesting or valuable or cool without the overbearing influence of basic "game design theory". You get cleaner snapshots of the person behind the project because the existing body of defined knowledge hasn't seeped into them yet.
3:02:44 AM noxioushamster: Does that kind of address your question or did I completely miss the point of what you were asking?
3:06:16 AM moxanot: It's a thorough answer. Let me See. Another one of the Zine^th contributors, Ashley Fritzsche, told me this was one of her favorite videos and she quit portrait painting because of it. So I recommend the entire episode, it ends astoundingly, and now I feel I own that idea, because I can seee this video at any time.
3:06:58 AM noxioushamster: yeah i definitely want to watch all of it at some point
3:07:03 AM noxioushamster: the part i just saw was very very cool
3:07:34 AM moxanot: "The Existing body of defined knowledge hasn't seeped into them yet." And they are rebelling, or going along but subtly rebelling… while you were peeing i watched the rest of it
3:09:27 AM moxanot: The crazy thing is that it is a creepy thought, because what outsider games are doing reflects well on games as a genre, and as a practice, like oil painting. It legitimizes it as an important metal experience. Something that should be owned, or be free to everyone. Arcane Kids and a lot of outsider games are usually free, but they bestow value to the others games too. Who will benefit most and be most remembered? Sony, Nintendo, Windows, Apple
3:09:41 AM moxanot: mental experience* metal
3:10:34 AM moxanot: Since uninformed people will always be buying Halo 3 or Cars the game
3:11:05 AM moxanot: The same sort of effect of high art is bestowed on games to some degree, limited to those who know where to find em and how to play them
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3:16:39 AM noxioushamster: I guess it's also worth mentioning that many outsider games might only really be interesting in the larger context of game design, which i guess goes back to oil paintings. Though at the same time, players of outsider games will not always benefit from being informed.
3:18:23 AM moxanot: Sorry this is kind of a dick question. That isn't what I wanted to ask for the zine, because it's just a tangent i got excited about for a moment. But it makes me derpressed, so it must be the wrong question.
3:19:03 AM moxanot: I liked your original answer about seeing a cleaner snapshot of the person behind the project. i
3:19:27 AM moxanot: Seeing the person behind it. Becoming friends with someone who designs an experience well through their machinations.
3:20:16 AM moxanot: Sort of learning about fellow men by playing their games, which by playing shows you how they think, makes you feel somewhat closer to them than a movie made by 1000s of poeple
3:22:23 AM moxanot: I mean part of the reason I personally liked Zineth from the outset when you guys demoed it at a Ground Zero house show was that you wanted to at first include us in the reviews of the game, that you guys just trusted yourselves and went for it. I guess the creeping features were a way to make it so all of your got to put in your own ideas of what would be cool in a game, without much sqwabbling or deal-making or compromise for the sake of organizing around an accepted game principle.
3:22:58 AM noxioushamster: (i dont' think anything you've asked has been a dick question by the way)
3:24:06 AM moxanot: In a way mathematicians and cold, cold doctors would understand, basically, while sanitation and arithmetic are important, everyone has their own version of what a doctor should act like and everyone has their own applications for arithmetic (some in the toilet, some on their walls)
3:24:49 AM moxanot: so trying to follow the status quo for these things is to support the large impersonal industries that cause the removal that creates outsider games in the first place
3:25:10 AM noxioushamster: it's a bizarre contradiction isn't it!
3:25:46 AM noxioushamster: we actually talked a bit about that exact thing with regards to zineth
3:26:17 AM moxanot: and fostering this outsider-ness will bring in some great equalization because instead of me telling my game design friend, my doctor friend, my mathematician friend that they aren't using mathematics like i learned it in highschool is me trying to force them to follow some standard that might not even fit them at all.
3:26:28 AM noxioushamster: how school did a lot of things that we really didn't like, but without the program being set up in the exact way it was, we wouldn't have been able to make zineth what it ended up being'
3:26:43 AM moxanot: lol
3:26:54 AM moxanot: ^^
3:27:02 AM moxanot: what you said
3:27:05 AM noxioushamster: yeah, i pretty much agree!
3:27:50 AM noxioushamster: in regards to your outsider statement I mean, I wasn't trying to agree with you agreeing with me
3:28:23 AM moxanot: lol
3:28:28 AM moxanot: ^-^
3:28:30 AM moxanot: I just mean to say it's cool that it gives power back to people to interpret their passions how they want to…even within your design team. Can I ask you what exactly feature creeping is? And how you guys organized the creative process behind it with your constraints?
3:28:48 AM moxanot: I mean, I just did ask that
3:28:50 AM noxioushamster: oh yeah, sorry for not being more specific
3:28:53 AM moxanot: no no
3:28:56 AM moxanot: I wasn't specific
3:29:05 AM moxanot: because i revised what i wanted to ask
3:29:06 AM moxanot: lol
3:29:13 AM noxioushamster: haha ok
3:32:05 AM noxioushamster: feature creep is setting out to build a paper airplane and ending up with an aircraft carrier
3:33:38 AM noxioushamster: the way we organized our creative process behind it is that we joked about a ton of really dumb stuff during development. every once in a while a joke was so dumb that we realized it had to be in the game
3:34:38 AM noxioushamster: and sometimes, for a joke to really work, it has to be taken way too far
3:34:56 AM noxioushamster: to the point where it's almost not a joke anymore
3:37:44 AM moxanot: ^
3:39:58 AM moxanot: Does each person work on the code linearly? So you would work on the code, then Russel would work on it, then Jacob?
3:40:14 AM moxanot: Then adding features on top of features?
3:40:34 AM noxioushamster: nah, we all worked on things at the same time, we just tried to make sure that no one was working on the same thing as anyone else at the same time
3:40:44 AM moxanot: ohh
3:41:15 AM noxioushamster: then every once in a while we would do these awful merges where we'd try to combine what everyone had worked on into a central project
3:41:21 AM moxanot: Sort of like setting loose three sculptors on one sculpture, and only in portions or shifts, and then they can switch?
3:41:30 AM noxioushamster: and invariably somebody's thing would break somebody else's thing
3:41:30 AM moxanot: lol!!
3:41:57 AM noxioushamster: it's like when you see people collaborating on a giant sand sculpture
3:42:27 AM noxioushamster: during some parts people are helping work on the same thing, like when getting the foundation down, but later everyone branches out and adds their own details
3:42:45 AM moxanot: It sound kind of pretty.
3:42:56 AM noxioushamster: haha
3:43:02 AM noxioushamster: it felt good when things got combined
3:43:12 AM noxioushamster: the actual combining was not usually too pretty though
3:43:41 AM moxanot: The paint splattering section, to make the metaphor include a third type of thing
3:44:28 AM moxanot: And how did the coding coincide with the art and sprite making, how the character would move?
3:44:45 AM noxioushamster: haha, you mean the cellphone monster game?
3:44:54 AM moxanot: Do you just upload 3d images and the code moves the character?
3:45:02 AM moxanot: no no, well yes, and no
3:45:11 AM moxanot: both the 3d imagery and the 2d imagery
3:47:17 AM noxioushamster: in broad terms, everything originally uses temporary assets, basically cubes and planes and capsules and other shape presets. we write code that moves these things around and try to get it to feel right and eventually art assets come in and we replace the existing blobs with recognizable objects. this invariably changes the way things feel a bit and further adjustments are made
3:47:53 AM moxanot: woa
3:48:37 AM moxanot: I guess the cellphone monster game was liiiiike a simple game to balance out the vastness of the skiing portionate.
3:49:57 AM moxanot: The twitter is genius of course, you have the players post to their twitter accounts through your game and they can check their phones ingame, and distract themselves, just like in real life, a bit of a reminder of what they're doing, but a double reminder, very self- aware design. taking us for a ride, while we control the ride.
3:51:24 AM moxanot: And we happily pass out zines to complement our digital double triple disproportionate revenge with the coolness of punk zines sort of gameified into a business for the main character to inhabit, which just gives us the milleu of the character.
3:51:59 AM moxanot: Well, contradictory to what I said, you can actually read the zines too..
3:52:30 AM noxioushamster: haha yes, very self aware. the monster game is actually really funny to me because we've had people in all seriousness ask us if we'd consider porting just that game to mobile platforms, and we've had people waste vasts amount of time in game, in this huge world we built for them, playing instead this little monster cellphone game
3:52:54 AM moxanot: hahaha
3:52:59 AM moxanot: well, it's a trap of course
3:53:05 AM moxanot: it's an awesome game
3:53:24 AM moxanot: It's like putting dough boys in a room with pizza
3:53:33 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, definitely
3:54:05 AM moxanot: It's got the flavor of great newgrounds flash games that trap people for hours and days
3:54:34 AM noxioushamster: it's very neccessary for the cellphone idea to actually be complete
3:54:34 AM moxanot: What were your main responsibilities for the game? I'm reading Jacob's right now, they're like" "the cell phone, setting up the NPC trainers you can battle, the mission system and missions, saving and loading, the online multiplayer, most particle effects, and a few shaders."" <—0direct from his website
3:54:45 AM moxanot: sorry continue ^^
3:54:57 AM noxioushamster: haha no, that was about all i was gonna say regarding that
3:55:00 AM moxanot: k
3:55:01 AM noxioushamster: umm, responsibilities
3:55:13 AM noxioushamster: let's see if i can remember everything i did
3:55:19 AM moxanot: I ask only because I pictured it less like responsibilities
3:55:28 AM moxanot: and more like the whole sculpture thing we came up with
3:55:47 AM moxanot: Granted, this is on his portfolio
3:56:00 AM moxanot: so he can't be like " well, we all did everything together, because we were a team"
3:56:40 AM moxanot: I've tried that before for a performance i wrote + directed, and I just mystified the EMPAC people and never got invited back even though they loved it.
3:57:42 AM moxanot: they asked me who made it, the core team and I said, I said, "well everyone in the audience right now made this, and everyone on stage right now. i can't say any one was really the core, because without any of the elements it would not have existed."
3:58:05 AM moxanot: And they were like "…okay.."
3:58:38 AM moxanot: It was the perfect punk move, but very bad for my performance writing career. So maybe it is better you tell me your responsibilities
3:58:46 AM noxioushamster: haha that's great
3:59:30 AM noxioushamster: there was a lot of initial separation actually in what we worked on. as far as what I did: grinding system, the hawk, cacti, some small stuff with the trainers, a bit of trainer placement and mission text, the camera (huge nightmare), the rewind feature, player animation programming, music and sfx playing, capsule system, some of the zine page creation, and i'm sure some more things i'm forgetting
4:00:29 AM noxioushamster: i should also mention that after school was over, jacob and russell continued to work on the game for a few months and jacob touched a lot of those systems to optimize, improve or rework
4:00:51 AM moxanot: any good zine pages?? oh i'd love to put them in zine^th <-to make the brand distinction
4:01:29 AM noxioushamster: haha, so basically jacob and i made all the zine pages that have no actual text in them
4:01:48 AM noxioushamster: what we did was wander around the school at 4AM and pick up pieces of garbage and class notes people had left behind
4:01:54 AM noxioushamster: and then turn them into zine templates
4:02:10 AM moxanot: lololol
4:02:17 AM noxioushamster: but there's also some stuff like, someone drew a picture and we just made taht picture a zine page
4:03:20 AM moxanot: I wish I could have been there, as you or Jacob. I would have changed the equation, so I prefer I guess, the Being John Malcovich style of wish. (A wish is just a dream)...
4:03:32 AM noxioushamster: hahaha
4:03:47 AM moxanot: Adventures! Perfect material for art
4:04:00 AM noxioushamster: i could put the zine pages we made as public dropbox links if you want to see them separate from the game
4:04:00 AM moxanot: "RT"
4:04:09 AM noxioushamster: since it's hard to find all of them
4:04:31 AM moxanot: lol yes please, i never even found ONE I think i just got the first delivery in the beginning of the game
4:04:46 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah they're basically impossible to just casually come across
4:06:20 AM moxanot: I need to play with more dedication. After I figured out after forever how to climb the tower, how to spin around and use excessive grinding points to fly really far, I tried the eagle like 4 times, almost beat him in the game after the 5th, then kept dying again before I could open the game, i gave up because i had done everything else, and I don't like to stress my mind for too long on insane objectives that i really want to accomplish.
4:06:49 AM moxanot: The first 3 times with the eagle, i didnt know you were supposed to play him. I was so mad when he dropped me in his nest
4:07:26 AM moxanot: And for that I applaud you, because it's a preposterous goal that you got people to obsess over completing, while they are realizing that it is preposterous.
4:07:26 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:07:43 AM noxioushamster: we were honestly surprised that anyone figured it out at all
4:07:47 AM noxioushamster: it's so arbitrary and bizarre
4:07:47 AM moxanot: me too
4:07:51 AM moxanot: yes it is
4:07:56 AM moxanot: hahaha
4:08:09 AM moxanot: I had to use youtube videos and ask ben a lot
4:08:30 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah that's definitely the case for most people I think (minus being able to ask ben)
4:08:44 AM moxanot: ben did not tell me much
4:09:08 AM moxanot: He likes cheating as a strategy, but he does not help cheating with any gusto
4:09:13 AM noxioushamster: and we kind of wanted that feeling. we wanted to present the player with basically an impossible goal, and have there be real weight and accomplishment to figuring this out
4:09:19 AM moxanot: lol
4:09:26 AM moxanot: ya! it worked
4:09:32 AM moxanot: I felt like I was in the sub rosa club
4:09:44 AM noxioushamster: and if you didn't figure it out, that's ok too because there's a ton of other stuff to do, and sometimes the mystery is the most important thing
4:10:15 AM moxanot: you're cool Thomas Astle.
4:10:21 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:10:21 AM moxanot: Noxious Hampster*
4:10:34 AM noxioushamster: ya plz get the name right thx
4:11:10 AM moxanot: sry sry, i have a formality obsession problem
4:11:10 AM noxioushamster: i'm trying to give you the public link to this whole folder of zine pages
4:11:13 AM noxioushamster: but i can't figure out how
4:11:19 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:11:23 AM moxanot: use coding
4:11:25 AM moxanot: use it
4:11:34 AM noxioushamster: good idea!
4:11:45 AM moxanot: Do you know how to hack into an electric car and shut off the engine?
4:12:34 AM noxioushamster: nah, they only teach that sort of advance hacking to students going for their masters degree
4:12:42 AM noxioushamster: www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/Public/Zine%20Pages
4:12:45 AM noxioushamster: does that link work?
4:12:52 AM noxioushamster: wait, no there's no way it will
4:14:12 AM noxioushamster: ok, try this
4:14:13 AM noxioushamster: www.dropbox.com/sh/38t1fcgsxa4ioj2/iPwQzYvltW/Zine%20Pages
4:14:29 AM moxanot: you need to create a public link
4:14:40 AM moxanot: oh oops u did
4:14:48 AM noxioushamster: is that second one working?
4:14:57 AM moxanot: tyes!
4:15:02 AM noxioushamster: ok cool!
4:16:45 AM moxanot: omg AHAHA for example i would keep blaming the other people, an example was that eerything i got a blacklog i would blame every other person but never myself
4:16:48 AM moxanot: lmao
4:17:18 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:17:44 AM moxanot: these are way better than the first issue of zineth
4:17:58 AM noxioushamster: there's a secret hope that one day, someone whose paper we used will play zineth and find that paper
4:18:02 AM moxanot: the element of surprise
4:18:10 AM moxanot: lolll
4:18:22 AM noxioushamster: haha, i still think your zine is better, but thanks!
4:18:33 AM noxioushamster: ours is mostly devoid of actual things
4:18:49 AM moxanot: the essay and then followed by a picture of women cleaning a tortoise
4:18:55 AM moxanot: YOU CANT TEACH THAT
4:19:11 AM noxioushamster: hahaha
4:19:22 AM moxanot: "problem"
4:19:28 AM moxanot: "problem"
4:20:12 AM moxanot: "avoid bias."
4:20:23 AM noxioushamster: v important
4:20:48 AM moxanot: manzic2
4:21:18 AM moxanot: I am just gonna put some of these in my issues, strewn, since you guys prolly dont mind the whol copyright thing
4:21:34 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah i'm pretty fine with that
4:21:44 AM noxioushamster: i could ask jacob too i guess but i can't imagine he will care
4:22:11 AM moxanot: Fundamental flaws. He and Yuliy should have got a patent out on Rye No Bone
4:22:21 AM noxioushamster: biggest mistake of his career
4:22:21 AM moxanot: That is my favorite manual ever made
4:22:27 AM noxioushamster: yeah it's really great
4:22:28 AM moxanot: Do you have it?
4:22:32 AM noxioushamster: unfortunately not
4:22:38 AM noxioushamster: i've seen it before but i don't have a copy
Offering to send RyenoBone.pdf to NoxiousHamster (4:23:58 AM)
4:24:07 AM moxanot:
4:24:16 AM moxanot: Your lucky day!
4:24:17 AM noxioushamster: oh awesome, thanks!
4:24:21 AM noxioushamster: heh heh heh
Transfer of file RyenoBone.pdf complete (4:24:50 AM)
4:28:23 AM noxioushamster: ugh, so good.
4:28:57 AM moxanot: Yea it always makes me laugh. If not early on, always at least at "Either the drapes go or I do." (historical jokes)
4:29:13 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah
4:29:21 AM noxioushamster: it's pretty much perfect
4:29:33 AM noxioushamster: yuliy's greatest work
4:30:07 AM moxanot: Yeah! no question. I think when people make their greatest works, they don't even realize it and get upset that people are saying that.
4:30:33 AM moxanot: Chris Dudek hates the song "Soul for Sale" and Ben hates "All Around Scouts"
4:30:48 AM moxanot: They approached a weird kind of celebrity with those songs
4:31:01 AM moxanot: Yuliy goes down in history as secretly funniest person alive
4:31:09 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:31:25 AM moxanot: Well secretly to a lot of people who SEE him, but dont SeEe him
4:31:56 AM moxanot: Ok, I am joking so much that it isn't funny, and basically has become serious, that's like my whole life
4:31:59 AM noxioushamster: to be fair, i think yuliy would be open to the idea that the rhy no bone manual is his greatest work
4:32:05 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:32:08 AM moxanot: Oh you know
4:32:19 AM moxanot: that's true, now you've jogged my memory
4:32:58 AM moxanot: i wish yuliy did a youtube tv show
4:33:10 AM moxanot: or other video service
4:33:32 AM noxioushamster: i would pay to have a regularly broadcast yuliyTV stream
4:35:28 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=28pvR20AJA0 soul for sale
4:38:35 AM noxioushamster: haha i really liked that
4:40:25 AM noxioushamster: i like the camera work; the cameraman has a precense and it feels like he's excited to show the viewer things
4:42:21 AM moxanot: Yeah i like the shot where chris's crotch is next to the toilet
4:42:26 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:42:58 AM noxioushamster: ok i think i'm gonna head off to bed pretty soon
4:43:07 AM moxanot: lol yeah me too.
4:43:47 AM moxanot: How do you take complements about ZIneth?
4:44:20 AM noxioushamster: mmmm, it's a little weird for me i guess because although i put a ton of time and effort into the game
4:44:29 AM noxioushamster: i do feel like it's more jacob and russell's baby than mine
4:44:49 AM moxanot: takes a villiage
4:45:02 AM noxioushamster: yeah, that's definitely true
4:45:10 AM moxanot: "Definitely."
4:45:15 AM noxioushamster: it's a combination of things and also i'm very good at rationalizing myself out of things
4:46:02 AM moxanot: hmmm yeah i feel weird getting compliments about stuff too. Can one realize use them as a rating?
4:47:07 AM noxioushamster: recognition is a huge motivation and driving force for me, but it's also something that i'm never exactly sure how to respond to
4:47:37 AM moxanot: "Are you there, game community? It's me, Tom Astle."
4:48:02 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:48:06 AM moxanot:
4:48:15 AM moxanot: to bed!
4:48:26 AM moxanot: *outro music*
4:48:40 AM noxioushamster: talk to you later!
4:48:53 AM moxanot: *bow*
4:49:25 AM moxanot: ttyl, d00d*
4:49:30 AM noxioushamster: see ya
4:49:52 AM moxanot: it even extends to saying bye. recognition that a conversation was worthwhile, neither party admitting it
4:49:54 AM moxanot: lmao
September 9, 2013
9:56:23 PM moxanot: Hey Thomas, how are ya
9:56:30 PM noxioushamster: hey dude
9:56:38 PM noxioushamster: pretty good, how's things with you
9:57:34 PM moxanot: It's directly palpable,,,errr exactly palatable
9:57:45 PM noxioushamster: lol
10:01:08 PM noxioushamster: sorry i haven't gotten back to you with the interview zine pages
10:01:11 PM noxioushamster: i feel bad about that
10:01:20 PM noxioushamster: i still do want to finish it
10:01:24 PM moxanot: ooo guilt
10:01:26 PM moxanot: hehe
10:01:40 PM moxanot: I have not been having good luck finding people who are excited about contributing to the next issue. Either this or that, maybe my enthusiasm or others' work schedules had prevented movement. I had an idea though. Would you consider a proposition which proposes a consideration?
10:02:09 PM noxioushamster: what's it?
10:02:14 PM moxanot: It is...
10:03:22 PM moxanot: how do i make VLC the default player -_-
10:03:35 PM noxioushamster: haha ummm
10:03:49 PM noxioushamster: i think you can right click and say open with
10:03:55 PM noxioushamster: and then there's an option to say make this my default choice
10:04:31 PM moxanot: wahoooo
10:04:33 PM moxanot: thanks
10:04:37 PM moxanot: okay the idea is...
10:04:42 PM noxioushamster: haha no problem
10:09:13 PM moxanot: Would you consider choosing someone (possibly female) to interview? Someone with a discipline other than yours that you [insert verb] to understand. I don't know if you [want] or if you [desire] or if you [kind of would like], etc. But any verb, no matter, Someone you can try to make more transparent. Someone doing something intriguing, or has done something intriguing, that you want to decode. I could say this like 40 other ways, so this that, this that that this, what? yo
10:10:41 PM noxioushamster: interesting
10:10:48 PM noxioushamster: yeah that could be cool
10:11:03 PM noxioushamster: if I wanted to actually finish up my zine page thing, is that still on the table too?
10:11:32 PM noxioushamster: haha, or did i blow it
10:11:32 PM moxanot: hahah, cmon I'm not a fascist Tom
10:11:41 PM moxanot: I'm a facilitator
10:12:05 PM moxanot: which would be a fascist if i intimidate you as if i were in fact a fascist, which i suppose would take more than just my opinion to debunk and all, and shit
10:12:20 PM noxioushamster: wow
10:12:36 PM moxanot: hahaha
10:12:54 PM moxanot: I'm fun loving. If you wanna have fun making pages, make them, I'll throw em in the categories, I mean ingredients
10:12:54 PM noxioushamster: haha ok, well i will try to get SOMETHING done soon
10:13:00 PM noxioushamster: got it
10:13:13 PM moxanot: Then there is something to put around the interviews
10:13:26 PM moxanot: or vice vertsa
10:14:07 PM moxanot: haha what do you wanna do?
10:14:19 PM moxanot: Have time to bounce some ideas? Baby bunting
10:14:28 PM moxanot: Here, let's get loose:
10:14:42 PM moxanot: www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks1/maths/dice/twelve.htm
10:15:07 PM noxioushamster: 9
10:15:11 PM moxanot: 8
10:15:19 PM moxanot: 4
10:15:19 PM noxioushamster: oh well
10:15:26 PM moxanot: 1
10:15:28 PM noxioushamster: wow
10:15:30 PM noxioushamster: i got another 9
10:15:33 PM moxanot: dude.
10:15:35 PM moxanot: nice.
10:15:40 PM moxanot: third roll!
10:15:49 PM noxioushamster: 5
10:15:53 PM noxioushamster: wasn't meant to be
10:16:06 PM moxanot: 995 Where were your in 1995
10:16:10 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:11 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:12 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:20 PM noxioushamster: lots of places
10:16:22 PM noxioushamster: mostly my house
10:16:25 PM noxioushamster: i imagine
10:16:33 PM moxanot: So did John Lennon, and look where it got him.
10:16:40 PM noxioushamster: p good point
10:16:51 PM moxanot: Shot.
10:17:08 PM noxioushamster: !
10:17:46 PM noxioushamster: where were you
10:17:48 PM noxioushamster: in 1995
10:18:23 PM moxanot: hm, I was 6 years old. i was probably lost in a tomb of books underneath the ocean through the passage in the rocks on the shore
10:18:40 PM moxanot: Doobie or not doobie
10:19:05 PM moxanot: 8!
10:19:20 PM noxioushamster: cool!
10:19:26 PM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNrm8I5zF8
10:19:28 PM noxioushamster: i got an 8 too
10:19:31 PM moxanot: shit yes
10:19:42 PM moxanot: AHHHHHGGGGGGH YESS EIGHHHTTTHHHHEEEEE
10:20:21 PM moxanot: 
Asking noxioushamster to connect to us at 192.168.1.104:5190 for Direct IM. (10:20:24 PM)
10:20:27 PM moxanot: DIRECT IM with ME
Attempting to connect to 76.14.17.135:5190. (10:20:34 PM)
10:20:34 PM moxanot: Millenium edition
Attempting to connect via proxy server. (10:20:39 PM)
Direct IM connected (10:20:39 PM)
10:20:41 PM noxioushamster: i've never been so direct with someone
10:20:48 PM moxanot: thanks for smoking
10:20:49 PM noxioushamster: wooooooow
10:21:01 PM noxioushamster: omg
10:21:48 PM moxanot: 
10:22:00 PM moxanot: READ THIS FROM RIGHT TO LEFT
10:22:19 PM moxanot: IN EACH BOX, FROM TOP TO BOTTOM AS IN ENGLISH
10:22:35 PM moxanot: too fast paced?
10:22:40 PM noxioushamster: very strange relaity
10:22:51 PM noxioushamster: where you have to read in reverse
10:23:34 PM moxanot: i don't care, no offense, read it how you want to. You don't have to read it in reverse!
10:23:52 PM moxanot: It's a common misunderstanding, quite rare, that is understood to be obvious that you can't miss
10:23:52 PM noxioushamster: 
10:24:34 PM moxanot: heheh
10:25:22 PM moxanot: Tom, either/or question. Either who do you think you'll interview and about what topic O: what kind of pages you wanna make? or have to make
10:25:59 PM noxioushamster: hmmmm
10:26:07 PM moxanot: 
10:26:10 PM noxioushamster: i was trying to think about who i'd interview and i honestly don't know
10:26:12 PM noxioushamster: ahhhhhh
10:26:16 PM moxanot: lol
10:26:43 PM noxioushamster: i feel like it'd want to be someone not from games
10:27:19 PM moxanot: yes i believe it feels similarly to what you have said in the previous sentence you wrote and was delivered to me at 10:26
10:27:44 PM noxioushamster:
10:27:52 PM noxioushamster: what was that sentence
10:27:59 PM moxanot: i feel like it'd want to be someone not from games
10:28:00 PM moxanot: ""
10:28:01 PM moxanot: ***
10:28:05 PM noxioushamster: hahaha
10:29:58 PM noxioushamster: if i made pages
10:30:33 PM noxioushamster: i feel like i'd want to black out everything i said about game design
10:31:22 PM moxanot: Do you know anyone who does anything not from a video game? But maybe something like something that maybe would be similar to games or would advice in games, like but when game design meets something else, like what the something else collides in an interesting way similar to that but actually like anyone who is doing something not exactly video games but is related in some way…like someone outside who doesn't do game design
10:32:07 PM moxanot: haha, Tom, you're fun to talk to.
10:32:22 PM noxioushamster: haha
10:32:24 PM moxanot: Why do you want to black out everything you said? Do you even remember what you said?
10:32:25 PM noxioushamster: thanks i guess
10:32:51 PM noxioushamster: I feel like I mostly don't know what i'm talking about
10:32:55 PM moxanot: 
10:33:11 PM noxioushamster: haha oh man, i love that
10:33:35 PM moxanot: Well it's good you feel that way because it means whatever you said was not over confident
10:33:45 PM moxanot: You actually included a lot of disclaimers to that in my memory
10:34:26 PM moxanot: But as a guy who is thinking about game design your ideas previously said I think in a way or of sorts is useful and kind of like a way to think about game design from the perspective of a person who isn't doing them, but could understand in the way you explain.
10:34:52 PM moxanot: I'm watching a lot of Reggie Watts, so I'm having fun being circuituous
10:35:14 PM noxioushamster: haha interesting
10:35:48 PM noxioushamster: i guess it's neat to hear that i'm not making a complete fool of myself with my words
10:36:12 PM moxanot: You've performed artfully, Tom, artfully. Let's dredge up an example.
10:36:25 PM moxanot: 
10:36:59 PM noxioushamster: that's a v good grave quote
Offering to send Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.pdf to NoxiousHamster (10:37:58 PM)
10:38:04 PM moxanot: ^Gane
10:38:09 PM moxanot: ^Game
Transfer of file Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.pdf complete (10:38:23 PM)
10:40:11 PM moxanot: Tom where did I put our transcripts
10:40:13 PM moxanot: lol
10:41:09 PM noxioushamster: i don't know!
10:41:27 PM moxanot: 
10:43:54 PM noxioushamster: im reading this game
10:43:58 PM moxanot: k
10:43:59 PM noxioushamster: and it seems really interesting
10:44:01 PM noxioushamster: have you tried it?
10:44:10 PM moxanot: I played one day with my brother
10:44:17 PM moxanot: 1.5 days*
10:44:26 PM moxanot: It started to depress him
10:44:29 PM moxanot: lol
10:45:08 PM noxioushamster: haha oh no
10:46:12 PM moxanot: I found a whole ton of them on 4chan
10:46:18 PM moxanot: there was a thread on the traditional gaming board
10:46:26 PM moxanot: and a ton of pdfs got post
10:47:43 PM noxioushamster: that's pretty cool
10:48:01 PM moxanot: If you're asking me to play with you, I'd play.
10:49:03 PM noxioushamster: i haven't finished reading it yet but isn't it a solo rpg?
10:49:12 PM moxanot: oh yeah it's playable as one
Offering to send Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.rtf to NoxiousHamster (10:49:29 PM)
10:49:35 PM moxanot: This is our characters
10:49:39 PM moxanot: + story so far
Transfer of file Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.rtf complete (10:49:51 PM)
10:50:51 PM moxanot: Our hikikomoris are sort of friends, sort of
10:50:58 PM moxanot: because one of them is addicted to amphetamines
10:51:13 PM moxanot: and once he was on them and sat outside the door of the other and talked ot him
10:51:30 PM moxanot: They live in the same building and sort of talk to each other
10:51:53 PM noxioushamster: this is great!
10:53:24 PM noxioushamster: yeah, I'd play this with you
10:53:27 PM noxioushamster: this seems neat
10:55:31 PM moxanot: lol ok
10:55:44 PM moxanot: new game or do you want to take up craig's character?
10:55:51 PM noxioushamster: probably new
10:55:53 PM noxioushamster: if that's ok
10:55:54 PM moxanot: k
10:55:58 PM noxioushamster: though il ike craig's character
10:56:38 PM moxanot: www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks1/maths/dice/
10:56:40 PM moxanot: ^dice
10:56:49 PM noxioushamster: v nice
10:56:52 PM noxioushamster: i have no real dice
10:56:58 PM moxanot: me too
10:57:03 PM moxanot: i like them though, i used to have a lot
10:57:06 PM moxanot: dunno where they went
10:58:07 PM noxioushamster: yeah don't get me wrong im no dice hater
10:58:46 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: I feel like, the biggest piece of advice I would give about game design is
1:35:56 AM NoxiousHamster: Never trust anyone who claims to know about game design
10:58:55 PM moxanot: first thing you said
10:59:15 PM moxanot: moxanot: what if voldemort steve jobs says it?
1:37:13 AM NoxiousHamster: i think we can all agree on certain exceptions
10:59:26 PM noxioushamster: ahhhh man it's such a huge trap
10:59:38 PM moxanot: huh?
11:00:02 PM noxioushamster: i mean, me saying that is basically giving myself an out for anything i ever say after that right?
11:00:14 PM moxanot: hahaha
11:00:20 PM moxanot: by the way, it's hard to play this game without voice
11:00:26 PM moxanot: I think…maybe it isn't
11:00:31 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:00:39 PM noxioushamster: you sound unconvinced
11:00:41 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: haha, I mean, obviously lots of people know really useful and important things about game design, and obviously some people know more than others, but there are so many different approaches to it. There are people you can learn from, but game design is a soft skill, not a hard skill.
1:40:30 AM NoxiousHamster: DEFINITELY don't trust me
11:01:06 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: I feel like, game design is such a bizarre and malleable thing. Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design. Sometimes things that are bad are good, but sometimes not. Games will come out that people love, but those same people will freely admit to massive game design failings. In no way am I qualified to talk about game design. Game design is an impossibility. People can't even agree on what a game IS.
1:52:01 AM moxanot: haha there we go
11:01:28 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:01:39 PM moxanot: You have enough Reggie Watts in there, I don't think it's a trap
11:01:58 PM moxanot: I have enough credibility where the reader will know I didn't miss you trapping them/me
11:02:22 PM noxioushamster: haha yeah, i dunno, i guess i still agree with myself
11:02:43 PM noxioushamster: i usually think back on things with a soft memory and imagine i said things worse than I might've
11:03:24 PM moxanot: moxanot: Right, you said it's a soft skill. What is the difference between hard and soft skills?
2:03:10 AM moxanot: where else are you going to see gameplay like this, where will you ever see graphics like this, or the visceral feeling of john madden telling you your meaty men are doing well on the field
2:04:21 AM moxanot: 1. "Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design." An example in which you did something dumb and horrible that was worthwhile.
2:04:27 AM NoxiousHamster: The line is blurred in a lot of cases, but a hard skill can be something like fixing a car. You have this car and it's battery has died and it won't run. So in order to get it to run you need to replace the battery and you've accomplished your goal. You can go to school and learn how to solve all sorts of car problems and you can very easily measure someone's automotive fixing skills. A soft skill, like game design, isn't really something that's easy to measure. There's no right answer to most game design questions. It's all very subjective.
11:04:28 PM moxanot: ok, yeah, just giving you some samples
11:04:57 PM noxioushamster: yeah, i appreciate it. we had some cool bits of conversation
11:05:14 PM noxioushamster: you're a really good interviewer btw, i dunno if i told you
11:05:52 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster, that's somethin, thank you.
11:06:56 PM noxioushamster: haha. you always seemed like you understood exactly what i was trying to say and you would push it deeper and make me elaborate and really think about things
11:07:30 PM noxioushamster: so yeah, GOOD STUFF!
11:08:30 PM moxanot: Yeah reading back, I'm glad I got you to define things and quoted you to yourself
11:08:47 PM moxanot: Those are both funny, and good interviewing practices
11:08:55 PM noxioushamster: haha definitely
11:10:24 PM moxanot: hm, do you really want to play this hikikomori game? I'd kind of like to play a different one. I just like the idea because it's what I like about game design, even if it's haunting and makes one feel bad or similar to a hikikomori
11:11:20 PM noxioushamster: you'd like to play a different game or a different iteration of this one?
11:11:39 PM moxanot: different game
11:12:37 PM noxioushamster: got it, yeah that's fine! I think reading what you and your brother did was interesting and gave me a nice idea of how this would have worked
11:14:50 PM noxioushamster: have you seen Tetsuo: The Iron Man?
11:15:16 PM noxioushamster: it feels like you probably would've
11:15:54 PM moxanot: I have started it before
11:16:07 PM moxanot: suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/homebrew.html
11:16:14 PM moxanot: ^a list of tabletop games
11:16:33 PM noxioushamster: cool
11:19:18 PM moxanot: pick one and I'll try it. Oh yeah! I thought of a tabletop game idea. you have to play out your entire life in one hour. you use the browning equation to determine events
11:19:50 PM moxanot: you choose percentages to split up your life along the lines of certain things like " 35% drawing and 65% family"
11:20:01 PM noxioushamster: oh man
11:20:02 PM moxanot: So there's choice and fate
11:20:13 PM noxioushamster: i like the idea that
11:20:21 PM moxanot: well i guess any dice game has choice and fate, forget that part
11:20:26 PM noxioushamster: you could pour most of your life into something and have a chance of failing at it
11:20:34 PM moxanot: hahah yeah
11:20:42 PM moxanot:
11:20:46 PM moxanot: lol
11:20:49 PM moxanot: brb
11:20:53 PM moxanot: llb
11:20:54 PM noxioushamster: k
11:20:56 PM moxanot: nuyt
11:21:02 PM moxanot: .lib
11:21:05 PM moxanot: ok
Changed status to Idle (11:31:47 PM)
Changed status to Away: I'm not here right now (11:31:49 PM)
Lost connection with the remote user:
Connection reset by peer (11:34:13 PM)
Direct IM disconnected (11:34:13 PM)
11:35:40 PM moxanot: Back. Sorry howlAB business appeared. My associate and I are designing a crime victims' memorial for Orange County. Trying to win a contest. You and me: 1. Game? 2. Find a person to interview who does something else that you're into. 3. zineth pages. 4. Tell me your schedule maybe so I can appear at opportune times.
11:35:40 PM noxioushamster (Autoreply): I'm not here right now
Changed status to Online (11:38:28 PM)
Changed status to Available (11:38:28 PM)
11:38:44 PM noxioushamster: oh wow, that's really interesting
11:38:45 PM noxioushamster: good luck
11:39:11 PM noxioushamster: maybe i'm looking at the wrong places on this site but these seem like games you want to play in person with more than 2 ppl
11:39:33 PM moxanot: oh whoop
11:39:35 PM moxanot: s
11:39:49 PM moxanot: Right, that's why we chose the hikikomori game
11:39:51 PM noxioushamster: also, i'm going to be away from computers from the 22nd until the 30th
11:40:11 PM moxanot: ok
11:40:13 PM noxioushamster: but other than that i don't do much
11:40:39 PM noxioushamster: work from 9 to 6 or 8 ish
11:41:18 PM moxanot: Where do you work again? I am a will-o-wisp when it comes to this stuff.
11:41:31 PM noxioushamster: haha i'm the same way
11:41:36 PM noxioushamster: i'm at EA
11:41:38 PM noxioushamster: on the sims
11:41:44 PM moxanot: Cheers!
11:41:52 PM moxanot: Sköl*
11:42:02 PM noxioushamster: *clink*
11:42:06 PM moxanot: Will Wrong
11:42:11 PM noxioushamster:
11:42:27 PM noxioushamster: though that guy hasn't been on the sims or ea for a long tim enow
11:42:33 PM moxanot: lol
11:42:37 PM moxanot: o
11:42:38 PM noxioushamster: he has his own thing called the stupid fun club
11:42:41 PM moxanot: lol
11:42:43 PM moxanot: o
11:43:08 PM moxanot: I wonder if he eats with Peter Molyneux
11:43:26 PM noxioushamster: i wonder if peter molyneux needs food
11:43:31 PM moxanot: ^
11:43:58 PM moxanot: Who in your wildest dreams would you interview about what they studied or wrote about?
11:44:11 PM noxioushamster: hmmmm
11:44:38 PM moxanot: It can be tied to games. Like for example, I love symbolic logic and the game of logic by lewis carroll, because im just fascinated that math can scramble the logic of linguistics
11:44:59 PM noxioushamster: yeah im tryin to think of who from movies
11:45:01 PM moxanot: And I'd love to know what Carroll thinks of experience design, what he would ask me about it.
11:45:07 PM noxioushamster: that's really cool
11:45:12 PM moxanot: But i would love to ask him about math + linguistics
11:45:15 PM moxanot: and nonsense
11:45:25 PM moxanot: and have him make it clear to other people
11:45:29 PM noxioushamster: there's lots of ppl whose work i really respect but i feel like lots of ppl might not interview well
11:45:39 PM noxioushamster: i would totally read you interviewing lewis carol
11:45:49 PM noxioushamster: also as per my thing, i guess a lot of it would be on me the interviewer
11:46:11 PM moxanot: The quality of the interview depends on the interest of the interviewer and the comfort of the interviewee. It has to be someone who you could make comfortable I guess!
11:46:18 PM noxioushamster: i would totally interview jim jarmusch
11:46:24 PM moxanot: Film!
11:46:38 PM moxanot: That's that. You're interviewing Jarmusch
11:46:43 PM moxanot: about film
11:46:47 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:46:55 PM noxioushamster: (also Sogo Ishii)
11:47:12 PM moxanot: Do you like film as it relates to game design?
11:47:34 PM noxioushamster: mmmm
11:47:47 PM noxioushamster: i feel like, i like mechanics a lot but i'm really into narrative
11:47:53 PM noxioushamster: so i like that aspect of games a ton
11:48:02 PM noxioushamster: and film is obviously very narratively focused
11:48:04 PM noxioushamster: as a medium
11:48:48 PM noxioushamster: Cory McAbee would be really interesting to interview also i think
11:49:29 PM noxioushamster: salvador dali
11:50:06 PM noxioushamster: i would love you to go back in time and interview salvador dali so i could read it
11:50:40 PM moxanot: lol
11:50:45 PM moxanot: YEAH
11:51:17 PM moxanot: That is almost a tease, for you to suggest it. A mean tease. I can't even imagine doing that because it would 'xplode my veins
11:51:29 PM noxioushamster: hahaha
11:51:35 PM noxioushamster: yeah it's way too good
11:55:50 PM moxanot: Hm. I have an impressionistic painter named Crystal Zoodsma. I have another painter named Ashley Fritzsche. I have a film student named India Lombardi-Bello. You could interview one of them.
11:56:23 PM moxanot: They are resistant to me somehow, I am having trouble interviewing them.
11:56:24 PM noxioushamster: i was in a few classes with india
11:59:45 PM moxanot: India Lombardi-Bello <lombai2@rpi.edu>
12:00:16 AM moxanot: 518 860 4143
12:03:43 AM noxioushamster: now you have me thinking about how i would interview all these different ppl
12:09:21 AM moxanot: haha that's good. interview them. with your body
12:09:24 AM moxanot: your body is ready
12:09:48 AM moxanot: Honestly, maybe you could interview a games person who takes a different approach than you.
12:10:34 AM noxioushamster: yeah i need to stew
12:10:34 AM moxanot: My original conception was that an issue would have like MATHEMATICIAN/PHYSICIST-ARTIST/DOCTOR-GAME DESIGNER/PHILOSOPHER-DITCH DIGGER/GRAVEYARD CARETAKER
12:10:43 AM noxioushamster: woah
12:10:46 AM moxanot: but maybe it can be like
12:11:51 AM moxanot: GAME DESIGNERS: GD/PHILOSOPHER - GD/COMPUTER SCIENTIST - GD/ARTIST - GD/FOOL - GD/MATHE - GD/ BUSINESS - GD/ JANITOR - GD/PHYSICIST
12:12:02 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:12:11 AM moxanot: or half GD half artist/doctors
12:12:52 AM moxanot: I wish I could have more cards to mix up at once, but in stead it's gonna be more like, who can I get to do zineth, and who of those people can i get to get them to get others to do zineth
12:13:08 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:13:08 AM moxanot: *bows*
12:13:24 AM noxioushamster: well, i do want to do a thing
12:13:39 AM noxioushamster: so i will be thinking
12:14:00 AM moxanot: Gotcha.
12:14:02 AM noxioushamster: i think im going to zone out until bed, so i'm gonna head off for now
12:14:13 AM noxioushamster: cool talking to you again
12:14:13 AM moxanot: wanna zone out on Shell Shock 2?
12:14:19 AM moxanot:
12:14:26 AM noxioushamster: i don't have that, haha
12:14:33 AM moxanot: If you have a kongregate acct
12:14:42 AM moxanot: www.kongregate.com/games/kChamp/shellshock-live-2?acomplete=shell+shock+li#_
12:14:44 AM noxioushamster: haha omg
12:14:57 AM noxioushamster: i remember this game maker
12:15:09 AM noxioushamster: i used to play literally every flash game that came out
12:15:15 AM noxioushamster: back when that was kind of possible
12:15:33 AM noxioushamster: end of highschool and like freshman college
12:15:49 AM moxanot: haha, newgroundssssss
12:15:58 AM moxanot: my handle is WilliamH114
12:16:42 AM noxioushamster: i feel kinda bad, but i'm kinda in the mood to just space out in front of breaking bad
12:16:45 AM noxioushamster:
12:17:23 AM moxanot: haha no don't feel bad. i am really earnest but I always am. enjoy walter white getting killed!
12:17:28 AM moxanot: *spoiler alert*
12:17:30 AM noxioushamster: noooo
12:17:53 AM moxanot: *gloats*
12:18:10 AM noxioushamster: bet yr feeling *pretty* good right about now
12:18:16 AM moxanot: lol
12:18:30 AM moxanot: someone ruined it for me on facebook, so i thought i'd spread the troll
12:18:50 AM moxanot: *looks pretty*
12:19:03 AM moxanot: hahah don't worry you'll still enjoy it. I haven't watched since season 3
12:19:23 AM noxioushamster: now i don't know if you're serious or not
12:19:36 AM noxioushamster: (i'm only on season 2)
12:19:53 AM moxanot: Talcum paste
12:20:01 AM moxanot: I'm gonna watch Mushishi instead actually
12:20:35 AM noxioushamster: it's a good show
12:20:44 AM noxioushamster: if you like dum spirits
12:21:25 AM moxanot: Is that like dum dum boys
12:21:32 AM noxioushamster: probably
12:21:38 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVP5xfA3dw8
12:22:08 AM noxioushamster: yeah
12:22:11 AM noxioushamster: exactly like that
12:22:15 AM moxanot: UNGH
12:22:20 AM moxanot: yeah the DROp
12:22:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:22:27 AM noxioushamster: ok i'm offf
12:22:31 AM noxioushamster: ttyl
12:22:31 AM moxanot: cya dude
12:22:35 AM moxanot: onLINE
12:22:44 AM noxioushamster: *catches wave*
September 20, 2013
1:17:55 AM moxanot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouya What do you know about this and what new hardware do you think people should be focusing on? People are always so obsessed with new Apple products because they're sleek and well-advertised through word of mouth. Do you notice any companies and products that are doing something unique or really helpful that has appeared?
1:23:24 AM noxioushamster: mmmm, I dunno I was never that interested in the ouya. Hardware in general doesn't really get me too excited for the most part though I know I'm different than a lot of people in that regard. I'm probably the wrong person to ask about what kind of hardware ppl should be interested in. I want to try the occulus rift for the novelty of it, but I think I will throw up.
1:24:15 AM noxioushamster: I guess I really like arcade hardware but that stuff isn't really ever something that will be reasonable for home consumption
1:24:57 AM moxanot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occulus_Rift
1:25:52 AM noxioushamster: yep, that thing
1:27:02 AM moxanot: woahhh
1:28:34 AM moxanot: hatsproductions.com/organtrail.html
1:29:47 AM noxioushamster: lol, I remember seeing this
1:38:48 AM moxanot: If someone were to learn coding, or rather, get on the coding boat more swiftly, how would you recommend they do this? Coding games? What's the most fun and most helpful way of getting straight to being able to have an idea and creating it in code?
1:40:17 AM moxanot: If that's an annoying question with no good answer, say why
1:40:44 AM noxioushamster: i've never tried any coding games but they seem good in theory. I learned to program through classes in highschool but I REALLY learned to program with flash. it was nice because interfacing with the graphics themselves was super easy with it which removed a large aspect of what can be challenging or not fun about making things
1:41:44 AM noxioushamster: but i think most ppl have different answers to this question because most people learned differently
1:41:51 AM noxioushamster: from each other i mean, not just from me
1:41:52 AM moxanot: I started Flash animation with Flash 5. Then it was owned by Macromedia and was designed in a way that I could understand. Like <stop;> could be assigned to a button, so you could stop an action like
1:42:09 AM moxanot: make an interface telling the buttons to do this or that
1:42:31 AM moxanot: But they changed actionscript, I couldn't really learn it. The things that had been simple before started to not work.
1:42:46 AM moxanot: Good point.
1:43:04 AM noxioushamster: I probably had an advantage because I had taken a very basic programming class and new a few of the core things
1:43:06 AM moxanot: I guess this is for those that like us, prefer to learn through graphics.
1:43:18 AM noxioushamster: but i started on AS2 and moved to AS3 after a few years, so it was also a slow ramp up
1:43:28 AM noxioushamster: i started off doing things like writing code on objects themselves and calling stop on buttons
1:43:47 AM noxioushamster: gamemaker is not too bad either
1:43:50 AM moxanot: Thing is, I followed directions to make a button in the new script, and it just plain didn't do what the intructions advised. I tried a few other things but was not encouraged by having lost my abilities
1:43:55 AM noxioushamster: because you can do a lot through the built-ins
1:44:06 AM noxioushamster: but eventually you need to go beyond that to get the functionality you want
1:44:12 AM noxioushamster: so it forces you to learn bits of coding as you go
1:44:42 AM moxanot: I see, yeah. What's up with the Unity engine. I saw that it's free and I downloaded it, but I've never cracked it open so far.
1:44:44 AM noxioushamster: but yeah, everyone learns differently
1:44:50 AM noxioushamster: yeah unity is really great
1:45:07 AM noxioushamster: but if you don't know programming at all you will be probably very lost without tutorials
1:45:31 AM noxioushamster: but it has some on-site tutorials that walk you through some stuff with pre-made assets and gives you all the code you need, it just tells you where to fill it in and stuff
1:46:18 AM noxioushamster: with no prior programming knowledge, it might be a little hard to get into though. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to learn programming but I'd definitelyr ecommend it to learn more about 3D game making or game making in general
1:46:31 AM noxioushamster: but it's still very possible to learn coding through it
1:46:43 AM noxioushamster: it will just be a harder process probably
1:50:39 AM moxanot: I really liked Flash because I could do actionscript and animate
1:50:50 AM noxioushamster: yeah it's a huge advantage
1:51:04 AM moxanot: No wonder apple is all sissy about it
1:51:12 AM noxioushamster: lol
1:52:10 AM noxioushamster: i'm going to bed pretty soon but I'll talk to you later
1:53:03 AM moxanot: cool. talk to you later, Thomas X Astle
1:53:10 AM noxioushamster: haha
Changed status to Offline (2:14:58 AM)
Nov 24, 2013
7:50:03 PM moxanot: Tom do you like the comedy, do you like colored people? ,do you like the bill cosby?
7:50:31 PM moxanot: I find good link to old bill cosby saying things out loud
7:50:39 PM noxioushamster: this is a strange question billy
7:51:01 PM moxanot: It is a strange question, but don't say that about my mother
7:51:17 PM noxioushamster: lol
7:52:05 PM noxioushamster: i hope you realize by now that i'm basically a horrible person who hides from his responsibilities until the last possible moment
7:52:22 PM moxanot: me too
7:52:26 PM moxanot: I like people like me
7:53:07 PM noxioushamster: haha
7:53:16 PM moxanot: I found a little bit of bill cosby pornography but it's not worth sharing
7:53:33 PM noxioushamster: yeah, I think it's enough to know that you found it
7:53:53 PM moxanot: I wonder if there's Will Wright porn
7:53:59 PM moxanot: wait, there's a higher chance actually
7:54:01 PM moxanot: nvm
7:54:19 PM noxioushamster: i feel like there is, but it's probably not serious
7:54:30 PM noxioushamster: which i guess means it's not really porn
7:54:30 PM moxanot: www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/2588970078_742e99b05b.jpg
7:54:46 PM noxioushamster: haha oh wow
7:54:55 PM noxioushamster: the possibilities of the spore editor are pretty great
7:55:12 PM noxioushamster: you can make some pretty grotesquely interesting things
7:56:13 PM noxioushamster: not enough games let you control completely alien creatures
7:59:37 PM moxanot: hm yes! Tom, I have questions. TWO
8:00:08 PM moxanot: (1) What is the appropriate way to do concept art for a game so that the other people can use it?
8:00:52 PM moxanot: (2) Should I publish Zineth one person at a time? I have more than enough to publish about you. It occured to me that I can do short zines instead of journal length zines
8:02:41 PM noxioushamster: 1: I'm not an expert but it probably depends what you're concepting. You can do mood pieces and scenes that are meant to convey atmosphere and tone and feeling more than exact specifications, and you can do things that are more like references for characters and objects and environments so your other artists know what they're supposed to be shooting for.
8:03:41 PM noxioushamster: 2: You can do whatever you want. I think you can probably get away with formatting the zine in any way you choose. I don't personally have an opinion on format for stuff like that, but maybe others might.
8:04:22 PM moxanot: yay
8:04:28 PM moxanot: i appreciate your questions
8:04:36 PM moxanot: answers*
8:04:47 PM moxanot: okay. Tom sup
8:05:56 PM moxanot: Tell me something that doesn't involve work or art or anything
8:06:08 PM moxanot: Or let me down easy
8:06:09 PM moxanot: lol
8:06:16 PM moxanot: Or lead me to water
8:06:18 PM moxanot: so i can splash
8:06:32 PM moxanot: Or do a trick
8:06:50 PM moxanot: hahha like a blackflip or a curtain-hanging
Changed status to Away: I'm not here right now (8:08:55 PM)
Changed status to Idle (8:08:55 PM)
8:09:05 PM moxanot: hahah bye
8:09:06 PM noxioushamster (Autoreply): I'm not here right now
8:09:22 PM noxioushamster: sorry i was washing dishes
8:10:15 PM noxioushamster: uh...this is a good youtube vid
8:10:16 PM noxioushamster: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMupA9_wLcw&list
8:28:33 PM moxanot: Dobermans are strong
8:29:42 PM moxanot: :-0
Zineth!
Zineth Pages.
(search through documents on computer)
Transcript AIM
July 18, 2013
10:34:18 PM moxanot: William Dickie <<<
11:16:11 PM noxioushamster: hey!
11:16:13 PM noxioushamster: how's it going?
11:25:53 PM moxanot: Hey Tom, going well.
11:26:39 PM moxanot: you?
11:26:54 PM noxioushamster: Cool. I'm doing pretty good too. Sorry I haven't been online that much this week.
11:32:26 PM moxanot: Hey no worries, I wasn't online this last weekend either. Zine^th takes time anyways, I know. There's a balance between doing stuff and doing nothing that, if maintained, gives you time enough to finish your work while also having enough time to think on what you want to throw in there.
11:33:42 PM moxanot: I'm happy that you enjoyed the first one enough to contribute! Also I'm glad to get some blessing from you since I named it after your game.
11:35:36 PM noxioushamster: Yeah, I liked the first issue a lot! I know Jacob was really into it too. I think all of us thought it was pretty funny that you went with the title Zine^th.
11:42:16 PM moxanot: Yea I mean (getting heavy vegetable for a second) you guys inspired me. I was impressed by the professionalism, the handling of its release and the i followed it all through the awards and everything. So cool to see it blow up and to see how the game public reacted to it. It just made me want to connect all these talented people I've met, get them familiar with each other and try to devise something for them to understand each other better.
11:45:05 PM moxanot: If more multidisciplinary teams work together it seems like a good thing. So zineth I see really as a thing for between peers. Where the contributors offer a coda of their experience for people of different backgrounds. I think if they meet where they are happiest, they will be more liikely to understand each other and maybe work together. But even without that, just to see things from different perspectives. blahblahbalbhalbha I could use a Russel + Ben explanation for all of that shit
11:45:23 PM moxanot:
11:46:47 PM moxanot: Everyone is everyone's tutor.
11:51:23 PM noxioushamster: Woah, that's really awesome to hear (though funny you mention professionalism, because I'm pretty sure we felt like the least professional people ever during a lot of development and beyond)! I like the idea behind Zine^th a lot. It's always really cool to hear how other people approach things and hear why they do what they do the way they do it. Communities and groups where the contributers are too similar to eachother get boring fast! I know that a lot of times I project my own ideas and motives and strategies onto other people, so I always like it when I get the chance to see things from the point of view of a different mind.
11:52:47 PM moxanot: Well the professionalism was in the way you were not professional in certain ways, but only the ways that counted.
11:54:14 PM moxanot: Despite taking the piss out of twitter, you guys used it really well I think. And the website was simple but cool. You didn't get too excited and spout a ton of bunk. It was all controlled feeling. I mean you guys just know the game community well enough to have an admirable stance when faced with it.
11:59:36 PM noxioushamster: Haha, yeah that's a really interesting way to put it. I always feel weird talking for the group, but I think we all really cared about making an awesome game, and wanted people to play it. What we didn't care about was pretending to be something we weren't. We were a group of dumb college students making something neat, and it would've been wrong to try and give any other impression.
12:00:18 AM moxanot: haha yeah.
12:05:55 AM moxanot: I don't expect to this issue, but I'd like to have the Arcane Kids in an issue sometime. I guess that's weirdly diffuse though. I don't know if there's one theme or perspective of Arcane Kids. But I'm going to publish something as howLAB in Zine^th about garbage to gold and blue economy and stuff. Just thought I'd mention it.
12:06:04 AM moxanot: What do you personally want to demonstrate for people of other disciplines? Arcane Kids aside.
12:06:35 AM noxioushamster: Yeah, that'd be really cool!
12:07:18 AM noxioushamster: Arcane Kids is such a weird entity.
12:08:40 AM noxioushamster: Would you mind expanding the question a bit? Like, demonstrate something in terms of a practical skill, or a concept or what?
12:10:45 AM moxanot: Influences in games, music, literature, etc? Influences from family life, friends, etc? What do you think people should know about game design? How does it relate to your regular life, inform it? Lessons you've learned? A demonstration of your personal knowledge that can be shared.
12:11:27 AM moxanot: You so don't have to answer this minute. I am going to bed sewn. Sewn as blankets and coats.
12:11:52 AM noxioushamster: Haha, cool I'll try to put some thoughts together now though, while I'm already in the right mood for it.
12:13:00 AM moxanot: Yeah. Yeah! you know good thought, a tutorial to do something simple…. on ben's tumblr he has a link for "make games now". I like that. What makes games important and how can you introduce anyone to the subject I suppose. If someone were you, they would understand because they'd have had your experiences….hmmmmm
12:13:31 AM moxanot: I guess your audience is your friends.
12:13:48 AM moxanot: Friends that don't have your code, that do other shit
12:14:06 AM moxanot: haha is this too much? do you want more? less?
12:14:19 AM moxanot: more specific, less
12:14:22 AM noxioushamster: Haha this is great, I know how to approach this I think.
12:14:27 AM moxanot: ok cool
12:14:42 AM moxanot: and, have you looked at the forum? I have more resources there.
12:15:15 AM noxioushamster: I have looked at it, but not today. I remember it has info about how to lay out my page and the general themes of the issue and stuff.
12:17:07 AM moxanot: Ya, there's also a page of interview questions and ideas if you're hungry. If not, I will probably ask some of them for the final pages. It'll be like the first issue, your pages and my interview of you. You have anything I can research about you, just make a post in the Zine*th board and I'll follow it.
12:18:04 AM noxioushamster: Ok cool. I tried going to the sample interview questions page but it didn't work for me. Do I have to be registered to the forum or something to see it?
12:18:46 AM moxanot: ooo boy, thanks for telling me. maybe
12:19:05 AM noxioushamster: actually, it looks like it's just trying to send me to http:///
12:19:20 AM noxioushamster: same with your first link under "The Structure" section
12:19:29 AM moxanot: oooo
12:22:03 AM moxanot: derp im not supposed to use quotation marks
12:22:12 AM moxanot: thanks for telling me!
12:22:23 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, sorry for not mentioning it earlier!
12:22:50 AM moxanot: No one else did either. hahaha
12:23:18 AM noxioushamster: haha, maybe everyone thought it was intentional
12:23:21 AM noxioushamster: that you were making a statement
12:23:22 AM moxanot: lol
12:23:43 AM moxanot: Yeah I get the feeling people read into all of my expressions too
12:24:08 AM noxioushamster: I think it's hard not to. You type with such purpose!
12:24:15 AM moxanot: "Why did you look at me with meaning just then?" "O I was just checking to see how you were doing."
12:24:47 AM moxanot: Yeah I can do gangster style too. Look:
12:24:50 AM noxioushamster: Woah. What's that from?
12:25:06 AM moxanot: that's from me doin stuff with people, then talking to them about it
12:25:17 AM moxanot: *showcases a pistol*
12:25:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:26:06 AM moxanot: Tom, do you also know why my forum avatar is squished? Does that also seem like its on purpose? or*
12:26:48 AM moxanot: Or*
12:27:06 AM noxioushamster: Haha, well whether or not it was on purpose, you chose to leave it that way, so it says something.
12:27:34 AM moxanot: haha maybe that's why I have been enjoying deep listening
12:28:02 AM moxanot: 60s people and their ears...
12:28:13 AM noxioushamster:
12:28:31 AM moxanot: deeplistening.org/site/
12:28:56 AM noxioushamster: did you take the deep listening class at RPI?
12:29:09 AM moxanot: I just audited one this summer.
12:29:21 AM moxanot: It was deep listening and electronic music
12:29:38 AM moxanot: very cool. then i got invited to work at the conference.
12:29:44 AM noxioushamster: oh cool
12:29:57 AM moxanot: I felt like I was at a convergence of hearing superheros
12:31:13 AM moxanot: We went on a *sound walk* where a bunch of 50+ people walk around listening to the environment. I followed a physics-deep listening guy and he led me to a tree stump which was being vomited on and decomposed by house flies. I didn't expect to learn that. And a woman who talks about deep listening to your dreams. Quite a trip.
12:31:15 AM moxanot: deeplistening.org/cgi-bin/dreamsack.cgi
12:31:23 AM moxanot: ^put a dream in, get one back
12:31:55 AM noxioushamster: woah, that actually sounds pretty neat
12:32:23 AM noxioushamster: dreams for the dream festival
12:33:01 AM moxanot: Yeah she found research where they record the movement of ear drums during dreaming. I guess the mind invents sound as well as images in dreams, and it might be able to be mapped and played. Eerie. Thought reading!
12:33:27 AM noxioushamster: woah
12:33:54 AM noxioushamster: i would love to hear someone's dream sounds
12:34:11 AM moxanot: My mom finds it confusing that I don't just apply to HCI jobs. But I haven't told her yet that people can read thoughts by ear drum vibrations.
12:34:37 AM noxioushamster: it changes thins
12:34:38 AM moxanot: If the world is actually as weird as it seems, it makes no sense to get a real job at all
12:34:41 AM noxioushamster: things*
12:34:43 AM moxanot:
12:35:05 AM noxioushamster: speaking as someone who has a real job, fuck real jobs
12:35:52 AM moxanot: Yea I tried to be in limbo, real job with film makers who seem to invent realities…but it sucked too. Too far away from me, like Sting.
12:36:01 AM moxanot: “I am interested in fostering a Dream Community. Dreams are our deepest source of creativity and dreams are always truthful about our feelings. Since all humans and most animals dream, sharing dreams and dream creations can help dissolve the cultural and class demarcations that keep us separate from one another. Dream awareness can help us lead more authentic lives. “
- Ione
12:37:08 AM moxanot: I saw this lady in person. She should be with the Muses at the base of Mount Olympus. Her hair was like medusa if she dreadlocked the snakes and formed them into an orb on her head.
12:38:21 AM noxioushamster: you've probably seen this before, but just in case
12:38:23 AM noxioushamster: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD_%28video_game%29
12:38:43 AM noxioushamster: it's the neatest thing
12:39:11 AM noxioushamster: the original game came with a copy of the creator's dream journal that inspired the content and illustrations for each entry
12:39:40 AM moxanot: ooo that is the BEST! i gotta get a PS2 emulator for my computer.
12:40:13 AM noxioushamster: there are a lot of games i admire, but very few that i actually wish i had made.
12:40:35 AM noxioushamster: this is one that makes me anxious just thinking about how great it is.
12:42:23 AM moxanot: haahah right! it's the kind of game that would get my reality-ignoring organs dancing and telling me : "Billy! You can make a game all by yourself! A film too! A tv series!" Recently I'm learning to ignore these anxieties…and focus on what I actually enjoy doing hahah.
12:43:15 AM noxioushamster: (tbf you totally can make a game by yourself but you should also definitely focus on what you enjoy)
12:44:18 AM moxanot: (i would love to make an rpg on my own!)
12:44:47 AM moxanot: I'm gonna slip off to watch an episode of wilfred and then go to bed. But by the wayside, I'm looking for someone to do art and stuff for an olskoo RPG i'm helping design with some peeps. If you know anyone who is looking for free association and like old RPGs, lemme know.
12:45:50 AM noxioushamster: cool, I'll definitely hit you up if I find someone looking!
12:46:43 AM noxioushamster: i'd be interested to hear about the game sometime btw
12:48:15 AM moxanot: cool. long story go-gurt: final fantasy, chrono trigger, zelda, earthbound, Xanth, secrets of mana, space funeral
12:48:28 AM noxioushamster: you had me at space funeral
12:48:39 AM moxanot: hahah yeah i had myself too
12:49:02 AM moxanot: the other guys are more traditional, I'm the earthbound, space funeral, xanth guy
12:49:13 AM moxanot: trying to make the game not a lord of the rings rip off
12:49:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:49:31 AM noxioushamster: well that's definitely a worthy fight
12:49:55 AM moxanot: they want to do multiplayer, pokemon world share style
12:50:03 AM moxanot: oh yeah pokemon too*
12:50:13 AM noxioushamster: wow, this is starting to sound super ambitious
12:50:17 AM moxanot: I wish I could apply to work at Game Freak
12:50:22 AM moxanot: lol
12:50:38 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah I dunno what game freak's hiring policy is
12:50:52 AM moxanot: yeah, I get ambitious when i go out to buy ice cream though
12:51:09 AM noxioushamster: haha, i can relate
12:51:42 AM moxanot: so far I have won on making our female character more bad ass and less helpless, which i can not stand
12:51:50 AM moxanot: white mages suck
12:52:08 AM moxanot: so we flip her moves to be like "Cauterize" which can burn enemies, heal allies
12:52:20 AM noxioushamster: oh interesting
12:52:42 AM noxioushamster: yeah we definitely don't need more helpless woman characters in games
12:53:23 AM moxanot: If someone is a princess, they are going to be Princess Bubblegum at least
12:53:36 AM noxioushamster: haha i like that mission statement
12:55:14 AM moxanot: ok cool. I'm glad I caught up with you. Send me stuff if you want to kick it around. g'night + good luck
12:55:29 AM noxioushamster: yeah, cool talking to you
12:55:31 AM noxioushamster: good night
12:56:05 AM moxanot: R.B.A.u!
12:56:08 AM moxanot: At ease.
1:29:59 AM moxanot: RBAUL, have you been tossing and turning in sleepless nights thinking about what you revealed to me in our last conversation?
1:30:22 AM moxanot: *inquisition face*
1:33:33 AM noxioushamster: oh no! that question totally slipped my mind this week.
1:33:38 AM moxanot: Or less paranoid yet, thinking about what you want to put in Zineth?
1:34:07 AM moxanot: Wow you knew I was going to ask that??
1:34:28 AM moxanot: brb. This is eerie, I'm gonna eat a pineapple sugar-ring.
1:34:49 AM noxioushamster: haha wait, no, I was responding to your previous question
1:34:51 AM noxioushamster: unless
1:35:01 AM noxioushamster: you typed that earlier and it just got sent now
1:35:18 AM noxioushamster: v spooky
1:35:48 AM noxioushamster: I feel like, the biggest piece of advice I would give about game design is
1:35:56 AM noxioushamster: Never trust anyone who claims to know about game design
1:36:50 AM moxanot: what if voldemort steve jobs says it?
1:37:13 AM noxioushamster: i think we can all agree on certain exceptions
1:37:35 AM moxanot: Like the guy in the videos for the doublefine kickstarter?
1:38:22 AM moxanot: Or Russel's boss, the guy who made flow and journey? or the people from game freak or nintendo?
1:39:53 AM moxanot: Not even Ben Esposito?
1:40:06 AM moxanot: you?
1:40:16 AM moxanot: ^-^
1:40:22 AM noxioushamster: haha, I mean, obviously lots of people know really useful and important things about game design, and obviously some people know more than others, but there are so many different approaches to it. There are people you can learn from, but game design is a soft skill, not a hard skill.
1:40:30 AM noxioushamster: DEFINITELY don't trust me
You have disconnected (1:44:57 AM)
You have connected (1:45:01 AM)
1:50:45 AM moxanot: hahah, Damn I was hoping you were going to say they suck, because they're not you. but I'm glad you didn't because it would feel like CNN
1:50:57 AM moxanot: "they suck because they're not you"
1:51:09 AM moxanot: but I'm anticipating this message you're writing
1:51:23 AM noxioushamster: I feel like, game design is such a bizarre and malleable thing. Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design. Sometimes things that are bad are good, but sometimes not. Games will come out that people love, but those same people will freely admit to massive game design failings. In no way am I qualified to talk about game design. Game design is an impossibility. People can't even agree on what a game IS.
1:52:01 AM moxanot: haha there we go
1:52:06 AM noxioushamster: haha
1:52:11 AM noxioushamster: I dunno if that makes sense
1:52:22 AM moxanot: Do you have a website with your own experience designs?
1:52:38 AM moxanot: Because I think that game design is just experience design in most cases.
1:52:56 AM noxioushamster: yeah that's a good way of putting it
1:53:13 AM moxanot: dodgeball seems liek a game, but is it a social selection thing in disguise?
1:53:17 AM noxioushamster: i think the word "game" gets a lot of people caught up
1:54:48 AM noxioushamster: i have a website, but it doesn't have much of value
1:54:54 AM moxanot: Anyhoo, I know Ben obviously, and I know the Arcane Kids style idea mixes with NO BACKSIES style, in which something realyl bad can turn out awesome. It's just like "I Want my people to experience being an old woman and having to carry grocery bags while walking on ice"
1:55:22 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, definitely
1:55:24 AM moxanot: It's not the point to make the gameplay amazing or even the graphics, maybe the sound, but the point is where else are you ever going to be able to try that
1:56:45 AM moxanot: Not that experience design is a possibility either. No one can agree on what an experience is other than listing the senses they possess according to psychology research in science.
1:57:16 AM moxanot: well literary definitions too, but basically it's super general, like the word " Thing"
1:58:08 AM noxioushamster: and that's the thing, right? sometimes it IS about the amazing "gameplay" or the graphics, and that's ok too I think. Not everyone likes experimental games and joke games and "notgames", and not everyone wants to make things like that.
1:59:27 AM noxioushamster: so you have all kinds of people all approaching "game design" in a very different way, and while there are things you can learn from all of them, no one's word is, or should be at least, game design gospel
2:00:28 AM moxanot: Right, you said it's a soft skill. What is the difference between hard and soft skills?
2:03:10 AM moxanot: where else are you going to see gameplay like this, where will you ever see graphics like this, or the visceral feeling of john madden telling you your meaty men are doing well on the field
2:04:21 AM moxanot: 1. "Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design." An example in which you did something dumb and horrible that was worthwhile.
2:04:27 AM noxioushamster: The line is blurred in a lot of cases, but a hard skill can be something like fixing a car. You have this car and it's battery has died and it won't run. So in order to get it to run you need to replace the battery and you've accomplished your goal. You can go to school and learn how to solve all sorts of car problems and you can very easily measure someone's automotive fixing skills. A soft skill, like game design, isn't really something that's easy to measure. There's no right answer to most game design questions. It's all very subjective.
2:04:41 AM moxanot: 2. Are you worried about any certain people's opinions becoming game design gospel?
2:05:08 AM noxioushamster: let me answer 2 first because I have an answer to that right off the bat
2:05:12 AM moxanot: kk
2:05:15 AM noxioushamster: Yes
2:06:33 AM moxanot: Before you answer, be warned that people tend to choose a leader. Especially in mass media situations. Games are slowly becoming a mass medium of procedural learning. So this is an important question, since someone WILL become the gospel for certain demographics or industries.
2:07:34 AM moxanot: I think I've noticed it happen in history often. Of course, in TV and film, it cycles and changes, but there's never anyone saying "everyone can do this, and everyone should and spore is not better than the sims and none of them are better than the worst game."
2:08:38 AM moxanot: omg i want a snack, brb
2:11:45 AM noxioushamster: I think it's dangerous for the medium if people just take all their game design knowledge from the same pool of people. It's all about what's right for the game, the experience, that you want to craft. It would be boring if everyone approached every experience the same way. That's why outsider art is so interesting, right? Different or half-formed understandings and perspectives can give way to very important and interesting, even if deeply flawed, things.
2:23:33 AM noxioushamster: As far as something I've done that was horrible but ultimately worthwhile, Zineth is honestly a great example. We had three programmers on that project, but didn't set up source control. This meant that none of us could edit the same files at the same time without it being a massive pain and workflow issue. Our way around this was to basically to embrace feature creep. That's the reason the cellphone in zineth was as complex and full featured as it is. That's the reason we made physical zine pages, scanned them and hid them throughout the desert. That's the reason there's cacti and NPCs you can battle and a hawk you can ride. Instead of doing the smart thing and making a reasonably sized game with a very focused feature set, we created some gigantic lumbering skeleton with ten thousand half-formed limbs. What we did was probably really bad game design, and it certainly was born from bad practice, but without that stuff, zineth wouldn't be the same experience.
2:26:35 AM moxanot: That's so cool.
2:26:53 AM moxanot: NoxiousHampster, how did you think of this screen name?
2:27:03 AM noxioushamster: lol
2:27:11 AM moxanot: lol
2:27:35 AM noxioushamster: freshman year a few of us played warcraft III custom maps a lot, and we changed our usernames every time we started a new map, because it let you do that
2:27:44 AM noxioushamster: this one came up at one point and I liked it
2:27:47 AM noxioushamster: now I hate it
2:27:49 AM noxioushamster: but it's too late
2:28:52 AM moxanot: can i show you something? It might take about 15 minutes. I want to show you Ways of Seeing Episode 3 (at least the beginning 10 mins), and ask you how this applies to your idea of outsider art being interesting and flawed things being valuable, and people drawing their game design knowledge from the same pool of people.
2:28:56 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7wi8jd7aC4
2:29:21 AM moxanot: Let me know when you hit play, and I'll watch along with you.
2:29:32 AM noxioushamster: lemme read the description first
2:29:45 AM moxanot: no
2:30:02 AM moxanot: It's not that important. It's not a reference, just an idea
2:30:09 AM noxioushamster: haha oh ok
2:30:11 AM moxanot: I will ask it independently of the video
2:30:16 AM noxioushamster: ok then
2:30:17 AM noxioushamster: 3
2:30:17 AM noxioushamster: 2
2:30:18 AM noxioushamster: 1
2:33:32 AM moxanot: "art galleries are like palaces, but they are also like banks." do you think people gave up at this point when it was first shown? or were they like "ohhh shittt! brain fuckkkk"
2:33:41 AM moxanot: ^not the question yet
2:39:29 AM moxanot: oh stop!!
2:39:37 AM noxioushamster: !
2:39:40 AM moxanot: haha
2:39:41 AM moxanot: oops
2:39:46 AM moxanot: i got lost in asking the question
2:39:53 AM moxanot: Is outsider art the new oil painting?
2:40:08 AM noxioushamster: wow
2:40:15 AM noxioushamster: let me think about this while i go pee
2:40:18 AM moxanot: lol
2:40:20 AM moxanot: Are games not curated only by the "experts" the mark of new value because they are deeply flawed and also deeply valuable? How does your vision of games it place importance of value, as oil paintings show the emphasis of the real being solid, based on the scientific attitude and the sense of ownership?14
2:40:47 AM moxanot: as oil paintings show value in the emphasis of ...***
3:02:28 AM noxioushamster: I'd say it's almost the opposite. With oil paintings it seems like you get real broad strokes. If i'm understanding the video correctly, you look at the body of paintings as a whole and see what was valued and the attitudes of the population. With outsider games, you maybe have to look at each work individually. With most games you get glimpses of the designers, but it's hard for informed people to not fall into the trap of tried and true game design. With outsider games you really see what people find interesting or valuable or cool without the overbearing influence of basic "game design theory". You get cleaner snapshots of the person behind the project because the existing body of defined knowledge hasn't seeped into them yet.
3:02:44 AM noxioushamster: Does that kind of address your question or did I completely miss the point of what you were asking?
3:06:16 AM moxanot: It's a thorough answer. Let me See. Another one of the Zine^th contributors, Ashley Fritzsche, told me this was one of her favorite videos and she quit portrait painting because of it. So I recommend the entire episode, it ends astoundingly, and now I feel I own that idea, because I can seee this video at any time.
3:06:58 AM noxioushamster: yeah i definitely want to watch all of it at some point
3:07:03 AM noxioushamster: the part i just saw was very very cool
3:07:34 AM moxanot: "The Existing body of defined knowledge hasn't seeped into them yet." And they are rebelling, or going along but subtly rebelling… while you were peeing i watched the rest of it
3:09:27 AM moxanot: The crazy thing is that it is a creepy thought, because what outsider games are doing reflects well on games as a genre, and as a practice, like oil painting. It legitimizes it as an important metal experience. Something that should be owned, or be free to everyone. Arcane Kids and a lot of outsider games are usually free, but they bestow value to the others games too. Who will benefit most and be most remembered? Sony, Nintendo, Windows, Apple
3:09:41 AM moxanot: mental experience* metal
3:10:34 AM moxanot: Since uninformed people will always be buying Halo 3 or Cars the game
3:11:05 AM moxanot: The same sort of effect of high art is bestowed on games to some degree, limited to those who know where to find em and how to play them
You have disconnected (3:12:56 AM)
You have connected (3:13:02 AM)
3:16:39 AM noxioushamster: I guess it's also worth mentioning that many outsider games might only really be interesting in the larger context of game design, which i guess goes back to oil paintings. Though at the same time, players of outsider games will not always benefit from being informed.
3:18:23 AM moxanot: Sorry this is kind of a dick question. That isn't what I wanted to ask for the zine, because it's just a tangent i got excited about for a moment. But it makes me derpressed, so it must be the wrong question.
3:19:03 AM moxanot: I liked your original answer about seeing a cleaner snapshot of the person behind the project. i
3:19:27 AM moxanot: Seeing the person behind it. Becoming friends with someone who designs an experience well through their machinations.
3:20:16 AM moxanot: Sort of learning about fellow men by playing their games, which by playing shows you how they think, makes you feel somewhat closer to them than a movie made by 1000s of poeple
3:22:23 AM moxanot: I mean part of the reason I personally liked Zineth from the outset when you guys demoed it at a Ground Zero house show was that you wanted to at first include us in the reviews of the game, that you guys just trusted yourselves and went for it. I guess the creeping features were a way to make it so all of your got to put in your own ideas of what would be cool in a game, without much sqwabbling or deal-making or compromise for the sake of organizing around an accepted game principle.
3:22:58 AM noxioushamster: (i dont' think anything you've asked has been a dick question by the way)
3:24:06 AM moxanot: In a way mathematicians and cold, cold doctors would understand, basically, while sanitation and arithmetic are important, everyone has their own version of what a doctor should act like and everyone has their own applications for arithmetic (some in the toilet, some on their walls)
3:24:49 AM moxanot: so trying to follow the status quo for these things is to support the large impersonal industries that cause the removal that creates outsider games in the first place
3:25:10 AM noxioushamster: it's a bizarre contradiction isn't it!
3:25:46 AM noxioushamster: we actually talked a bit about that exact thing with regards to zineth
3:26:17 AM moxanot: and fostering this outsider-ness will bring in some great equalization because instead of me telling my game design friend, my doctor friend, my mathematician friend that they aren't using mathematics like i learned it in highschool is me trying to force them to follow some standard that might not even fit them at all.
3:26:28 AM noxioushamster: how school did a lot of things that we really didn't like, but without the program being set up in the exact way it was, we wouldn't have been able to make zineth what it ended up being'
3:26:43 AM moxanot: lol
3:26:54 AM moxanot: ^^
3:27:02 AM moxanot: what you said
3:27:05 AM noxioushamster: yeah, i pretty much agree!
3:27:50 AM noxioushamster: in regards to your outsider statement I mean, I wasn't trying to agree with you agreeing with me
3:28:23 AM moxanot: lol
3:28:28 AM moxanot: ^-^
3:28:30 AM moxanot: I just mean to say it's cool that it gives power back to people to interpret their passions how they want to…even within your design team. Can I ask you what exactly feature creeping is? And how you guys organized the creative process behind it with your constraints?
3:28:48 AM moxanot: I mean, I just did ask that
3:28:50 AM noxioushamster: oh yeah, sorry for not being more specific
3:28:53 AM moxanot: no no
3:28:56 AM moxanot: I wasn't specific
3:29:05 AM moxanot: because i revised what i wanted to ask
3:29:06 AM moxanot: lol
3:29:13 AM noxioushamster: haha ok
3:32:05 AM noxioushamster: feature creep is setting out to build a paper airplane and ending up with an aircraft carrier
3:33:38 AM noxioushamster: the way we organized our creative process behind it is that we joked about a ton of really dumb stuff during development. every once in a while a joke was so dumb that we realized it had to be in the game
3:34:38 AM noxioushamster: and sometimes, for a joke to really work, it has to be taken way too far
3:34:56 AM noxioushamster: to the point where it's almost not a joke anymore
3:37:44 AM moxanot: ^
3:39:58 AM moxanot: Does each person work on the code linearly? So you would work on the code, then Russel would work on it, then Jacob?
3:40:14 AM moxanot: Then adding features on top of features?
3:40:34 AM noxioushamster: nah, we all worked on things at the same time, we just tried to make sure that no one was working on the same thing as anyone else at the same time
3:40:44 AM moxanot: ohh
3:41:15 AM noxioushamster: then every once in a while we would do these awful merges where we'd try to combine what everyone had worked on into a central project
3:41:21 AM moxanot: Sort of like setting loose three sculptors on one sculpture, and only in portions or shifts, and then they can switch?
3:41:30 AM noxioushamster: and invariably somebody's thing would break somebody else's thing
3:41:30 AM moxanot: lol!!
3:41:57 AM noxioushamster: it's like when you see people collaborating on a giant sand sculpture
3:42:27 AM noxioushamster: during some parts people are helping work on the same thing, like when getting the foundation down, but later everyone branches out and adds their own details
3:42:45 AM moxanot: It sound kind of pretty.
3:42:56 AM noxioushamster: haha
3:43:02 AM noxioushamster: it felt good when things got combined
3:43:12 AM noxioushamster: the actual combining was not usually too pretty though
3:43:41 AM moxanot: The paint splattering section, to make the metaphor include a third type of thing
3:44:28 AM moxanot: And how did the coding coincide with the art and sprite making, how the character would move?
3:44:45 AM noxioushamster: haha, you mean the cellphone monster game?
3:44:54 AM moxanot: Do you just upload 3d images and the code moves the character?
3:45:02 AM moxanot: no no, well yes, and no
3:45:11 AM moxanot: both the 3d imagery and the 2d imagery
3:47:17 AM noxioushamster: in broad terms, everything originally uses temporary assets, basically cubes and planes and capsules and other shape presets. we write code that moves these things around and try to get it to feel right and eventually art assets come in and we replace the existing blobs with recognizable objects. this invariably changes the way things feel a bit and further adjustments are made
3:47:53 AM moxanot: woa
3:48:37 AM moxanot: I guess the cellphone monster game was liiiiike a simple game to balance out the vastness of the skiing portionate.
3:49:57 AM moxanot: The twitter is genius of course, you have the players post to their twitter accounts through your game and they can check their phones ingame, and distract themselves, just like in real life, a bit of a reminder of what they're doing, but a double reminder, very self- aware design. taking us for a ride, while we control the ride.
3:51:24 AM moxanot: And we happily pass out zines to complement our digital double triple disproportionate revenge with the coolness of punk zines sort of gameified into a business for the main character to inhabit, which just gives us the milleu of the character.
3:51:59 AM moxanot: Well, contradictory to what I said, you can actually read the zines too..
3:52:30 AM noxioushamster: haha yes, very self aware. the monster game is actually really funny to me because we've had people in all seriousness ask us if we'd consider porting just that game to mobile platforms, and we've had people waste vasts amount of time in game, in this huge world we built for them, playing instead this little monster cellphone game
3:52:54 AM moxanot: hahaha
3:52:59 AM moxanot: well, it's a trap of course
3:53:05 AM moxanot: it's an awesome game
3:53:24 AM moxanot: It's like putting dough boys in a room with pizza
3:53:33 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah, definitely
3:54:05 AM moxanot: It's got the flavor of great newgrounds flash games that trap people for hours and days
3:54:34 AM noxioushamster: it's very neccessary for the cellphone idea to actually be complete
3:54:34 AM moxanot: What were your main responsibilities for the game? I'm reading Jacob's right now, they're like" "the cell phone, setting up the NPC trainers you can battle, the mission system and missions, saving and loading, the online multiplayer, most particle effects, and a few shaders."" <—0direct from his website
3:54:45 AM moxanot: sorry continue ^^
3:54:57 AM noxioushamster: haha no, that was about all i was gonna say regarding that
3:55:00 AM moxanot: k
3:55:01 AM noxioushamster: umm, responsibilities
3:55:13 AM noxioushamster: let's see if i can remember everything i did
3:55:19 AM moxanot: I ask only because I pictured it less like responsibilities
3:55:28 AM moxanot: and more like the whole sculpture thing we came up with
3:55:47 AM moxanot: Granted, this is on his portfolio
3:56:00 AM moxanot: so he can't be like " well, we all did everything together, because we were a team"
3:56:40 AM moxanot: I've tried that before for a performance i wrote + directed, and I just mystified the EMPAC people and never got invited back even though they loved it.
3:57:42 AM moxanot: they asked me who made it, the core team and I said, I said, "well everyone in the audience right now made this, and everyone on stage right now. i can't say any one was really the core, because without any of the elements it would not have existed."
3:58:05 AM moxanot: And they were like "…okay.."
3:58:38 AM moxanot: It was the perfect punk move, but very bad for my performance writing career. So maybe it is better you tell me your responsibilities
3:58:46 AM noxioushamster: haha that's great
3:59:30 AM noxioushamster: there was a lot of initial separation actually in what we worked on. as far as what I did: grinding system, the hawk, cacti, some small stuff with the trainers, a bit of trainer placement and mission text, the camera (huge nightmare), the rewind feature, player animation programming, music and sfx playing, capsule system, some of the zine page creation, and i'm sure some more things i'm forgetting
4:00:29 AM noxioushamster: i should also mention that after school was over, jacob and russell continued to work on the game for a few months and jacob touched a lot of those systems to optimize, improve or rework
4:00:51 AM moxanot: any good zine pages?? oh i'd love to put them in zine^th <-to make the brand distinction
4:01:29 AM noxioushamster: haha, so basically jacob and i made all the zine pages that have no actual text in them
4:01:48 AM noxioushamster: what we did was wander around the school at 4AM and pick up pieces of garbage and class notes people had left behind
4:01:54 AM noxioushamster: and then turn them into zine templates
4:02:10 AM moxanot: lololol
4:02:17 AM noxioushamster: but there's also some stuff like, someone drew a picture and we just made taht picture a zine page
4:03:20 AM moxanot: I wish I could have been there, as you or Jacob. I would have changed the equation, so I prefer I guess, the Being John Malcovich style of wish. (A wish is just a dream)...
4:03:32 AM noxioushamster: hahaha
4:03:47 AM moxanot: Adventures! Perfect material for art
4:04:00 AM noxioushamster: i could put the zine pages we made as public dropbox links if you want to see them separate from the game
4:04:00 AM moxanot: "RT"
4:04:09 AM noxioushamster: since it's hard to find all of them
4:04:31 AM moxanot: lol yes please, i never even found ONE I think i just got the first delivery in the beginning of the game
4:04:46 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah they're basically impossible to just casually come across
4:06:20 AM moxanot: I need to play with more dedication. After I figured out after forever how to climb the tower, how to spin around and use excessive grinding points to fly really far, I tried the eagle like 4 times, almost beat him in the game after the 5th, then kept dying again before I could open the game, i gave up because i had done everything else, and I don't like to stress my mind for too long on insane objectives that i really want to accomplish.
4:06:49 AM moxanot: The first 3 times with the eagle, i didnt know you were supposed to play him. I was so mad when he dropped me in his nest
4:07:26 AM moxanot: And for that I applaud you, because it's a preposterous goal that you got people to obsess over completing, while they are realizing that it is preposterous.
4:07:26 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:07:43 AM noxioushamster: we were honestly surprised that anyone figured it out at all
4:07:47 AM noxioushamster: it's so arbitrary and bizarre
4:07:47 AM moxanot: me too
4:07:51 AM moxanot: yes it is
4:07:56 AM moxanot: hahaha
4:08:09 AM moxanot: I had to use youtube videos and ask ben a lot
4:08:30 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah that's definitely the case for most people I think (minus being able to ask ben)
4:08:44 AM moxanot: ben did not tell me much
4:09:08 AM moxanot: He likes cheating as a strategy, but he does not help cheating with any gusto
4:09:13 AM noxioushamster: and we kind of wanted that feeling. we wanted to present the player with basically an impossible goal, and have there be real weight and accomplishment to figuring this out
4:09:19 AM moxanot: lol
4:09:26 AM moxanot: ya! it worked
4:09:32 AM moxanot: I felt like I was in the sub rosa club
4:09:44 AM noxioushamster: and if you didn't figure it out, that's ok too because there's a ton of other stuff to do, and sometimes the mystery is the most important thing
4:10:15 AM moxanot: you're cool Thomas Astle.
4:10:21 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:10:21 AM moxanot: Noxious Hampster*
4:10:34 AM noxioushamster: ya plz get the name right thx
4:11:10 AM moxanot: sry sry, i have a formality obsession problem
4:11:10 AM noxioushamster: i'm trying to give you the public link to this whole folder of zine pages
4:11:13 AM noxioushamster: but i can't figure out how
4:11:19 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:11:23 AM moxanot: use coding
4:11:25 AM moxanot: use it
4:11:34 AM noxioushamster: good idea!
4:11:45 AM moxanot: Do you know how to hack into an electric car and shut off the engine?
4:12:34 AM noxioushamster: nah, they only teach that sort of advance hacking to students going for their masters degree
4:12:42 AM noxioushamster: www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/Public/Zine%20Pages
4:12:45 AM noxioushamster: does that link work?
4:12:52 AM noxioushamster: wait, no there's no way it will
4:14:12 AM noxioushamster: ok, try this
4:14:13 AM noxioushamster: www.dropbox.com/sh/38t1fcgsxa4ioj2/iPwQzYvltW/Zine%20Pages
4:14:29 AM moxanot: you need to create a public link
4:14:40 AM moxanot: oh oops u did
4:14:48 AM noxioushamster: is that second one working?
4:14:57 AM moxanot: tyes!
4:15:02 AM noxioushamster: ok cool!
4:16:45 AM moxanot: omg AHAHA for example i would keep blaming the other people, an example was that eerything i got a blacklog i would blame every other person but never myself
4:16:48 AM moxanot: lmao
4:17:18 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:17:44 AM moxanot: these are way better than the first issue of zineth
4:17:58 AM noxioushamster: there's a secret hope that one day, someone whose paper we used will play zineth and find that paper
4:18:02 AM moxanot: the element of surprise
4:18:10 AM moxanot: lolll
4:18:22 AM noxioushamster: haha, i still think your zine is better, but thanks!
4:18:33 AM noxioushamster: ours is mostly devoid of actual things
4:18:49 AM moxanot: the essay and then followed by a picture of women cleaning a tortoise
4:18:55 AM moxanot: YOU CANT TEACH THAT
4:19:11 AM noxioushamster: hahaha
4:19:22 AM moxanot: "problem"
4:19:28 AM moxanot: "problem"
4:20:12 AM moxanot: "avoid bias."
4:20:23 AM noxioushamster: v important
4:20:48 AM moxanot: manzic2
4:21:18 AM moxanot: I am just gonna put some of these in my issues, strewn, since you guys prolly dont mind the whol copyright thing
4:21:34 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah i'm pretty fine with that
4:21:44 AM noxioushamster: i could ask jacob too i guess but i can't imagine he will care
4:22:11 AM moxanot: Fundamental flaws. He and Yuliy should have got a patent out on Rye No Bone
4:22:21 AM noxioushamster: biggest mistake of his career
4:22:21 AM moxanot: That is my favorite manual ever made
4:22:27 AM noxioushamster: yeah it's really great
4:22:28 AM moxanot: Do you have it?
4:22:32 AM noxioushamster: unfortunately not
4:22:38 AM noxioushamster: i've seen it before but i don't have a copy
Offering to send RyenoBone.pdf to NoxiousHamster (4:23:58 AM)
4:24:07 AM moxanot:
4:24:16 AM moxanot: Your lucky day!
4:24:17 AM noxioushamster: oh awesome, thanks!
4:24:21 AM noxioushamster: heh heh heh
Transfer of file RyenoBone.pdf complete (4:24:50 AM)
4:28:23 AM noxioushamster: ugh, so good.
4:28:57 AM moxanot: Yea it always makes me laugh. If not early on, always at least at "Either the drapes go or I do." (historical jokes)
4:29:13 AM noxioushamster: haha yeah
4:29:21 AM noxioushamster: it's pretty much perfect
4:29:33 AM noxioushamster: yuliy's greatest work
4:30:07 AM moxanot: Yeah! no question. I think when people make their greatest works, they don't even realize it and get upset that people are saying that.
4:30:33 AM moxanot: Chris Dudek hates the song "Soul for Sale" and Ben hates "All Around Scouts"
4:30:48 AM moxanot: They approached a weird kind of celebrity with those songs
4:31:01 AM moxanot: Yuliy goes down in history as secretly funniest person alive
4:31:09 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:31:25 AM moxanot: Well secretly to a lot of people who SEE him, but dont SeEe him
4:31:56 AM moxanot: Ok, I am joking so much that it isn't funny, and basically has become serious, that's like my whole life
4:31:59 AM noxioushamster: to be fair, i think yuliy would be open to the idea that the rhy no bone manual is his greatest work
4:32:05 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:32:08 AM moxanot: Oh you know
4:32:19 AM moxanot: that's true, now you've jogged my memory
4:32:58 AM moxanot: i wish yuliy did a youtube tv show
4:33:10 AM moxanot: or other video service
4:33:32 AM noxioushamster: i would pay to have a regularly broadcast yuliyTV stream
4:35:28 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=28pvR20AJA0 soul for sale
4:38:35 AM noxioushamster: haha i really liked that
4:40:25 AM noxioushamster: i like the camera work; the cameraman has a precense and it feels like he's excited to show the viewer things
4:42:21 AM moxanot: Yeah i like the shot where chris's crotch is next to the toilet
4:42:26 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:42:58 AM noxioushamster: ok i think i'm gonna head off to bed pretty soon
4:43:07 AM moxanot: lol yeah me too.
4:43:47 AM moxanot: How do you take complements about ZIneth?
4:44:20 AM noxioushamster: mmmm, it's a little weird for me i guess because although i put a ton of time and effort into the game
4:44:29 AM noxioushamster: i do feel like it's more jacob and russell's baby than mine
4:44:49 AM moxanot: takes a villiage
4:45:02 AM noxioushamster: yeah, that's definitely true
4:45:10 AM moxanot: "Definitely."
4:45:15 AM noxioushamster: it's a combination of things and also i'm very good at rationalizing myself out of things
4:46:02 AM moxanot: hmmm yeah i feel weird getting compliments about stuff too. Can one realize use them as a rating?
4:47:07 AM noxioushamster: recognition is a huge motivation and driving force for me, but it's also something that i'm never exactly sure how to respond to
4:47:37 AM moxanot: "Are you there, game community? It's me, Tom Astle."
4:48:02 AM noxioushamster: haha
4:48:06 AM moxanot:
4:48:15 AM moxanot: to bed!
4:48:26 AM moxanot: *outro music*
4:48:40 AM noxioushamster: talk to you later!
4:48:53 AM moxanot: *bow*
4:49:25 AM moxanot: ttyl, d00d*
4:49:30 AM noxioushamster: see ya
4:49:52 AM moxanot: it even extends to saying bye. recognition that a conversation was worthwhile, neither party admitting it
4:49:54 AM moxanot: lmao
September 9, 2013
9:56:23 PM moxanot: Hey Thomas, how are ya
9:56:30 PM noxioushamster: hey dude
9:56:38 PM noxioushamster: pretty good, how's things with you
9:57:34 PM moxanot: It's directly palpable,,,errr exactly palatable
9:57:45 PM noxioushamster: lol
10:01:08 PM noxioushamster: sorry i haven't gotten back to you with the interview zine pages
10:01:11 PM noxioushamster: i feel bad about that
10:01:20 PM noxioushamster: i still do want to finish it
10:01:24 PM moxanot: ooo guilt
10:01:26 PM moxanot: hehe
10:01:40 PM moxanot: I have not been having good luck finding people who are excited about contributing to the next issue. Either this or that, maybe my enthusiasm or others' work schedules had prevented movement. I had an idea though. Would you consider a proposition which proposes a consideration?
10:02:09 PM noxioushamster: what's it?
10:02:14 PM moxanot: It is...
10:03:22 PM moxanot: how do i make VLC the default player -_-
10:03:35 PM noxioushamster: haha ummm
10:03:49 PM noxioushamster: i think you can right click and say open with
10:03:55 PM noxioushamster: and then there's an option to say make this my default choice
10:04:31 PM moxanot: wahoooo
10:04:33 PM moxanot: thanks
10:04:37 PM moxanot: okay the idea is...
10:04:42 PM noxioushamster: haha no problem
10:09:13 PM moxanot: Would you consider choosing someone (possibly female) to interview? Someone with a discipline other than yours that you [insert verb] to understand. I don't know if you [want] or if you [desire] or if you [kind of would like], etc. But any verb, no matter, Someone you can try to make more transparent. Someone doing something intriguing, or has done something intriguing, that you want to decode. I could say this like 40 other ways, so this that, this that that this, what? yo
10:10:41 PM noxioushamster: interesting
10:10:48 PM noxioushamster: yeah that could be cool
10:11:03 PM noxioushamster: if I wanted to actually finish up my zine page thing, is that still on the table too?
10:11:32 PM noxioushamster: haha, or did i blow it
10:11:32 PM moxanot: hahah, cmon I'm not a fascist Tom
10:11:41 PM moxanot: I'm a facilitator
10:12:05 PM moxanot: which would be a fascist if i intimidate you as if i were in fact a fascist, which i suppose would take more than just my opinion to debunk and all, and shit
10:12:20 PM noxioushamster: wow
10:12:36 PM moxanot: hahaha
10:12:54 PM moxanot: I'm fun loving. If you wanna have fun making pages, make them, I'll throw em in the categories, I mean ingredients
10:12:54 PM noxioushamster: haha ok, well i will try to get SOMETHING done soon
10:13:00 PM noxioushamster: got it
10:13:13 PM moxanot: Then there is something to put around the interviews
10:13:26 PM moxanot: or vice vertsa
10:14:07 PM moxanot: haha what do you wanna do?
10:14:19 PM moxanot: Have time to bounce some ideas? Baby bunting
10:14:28 PM moxanot: Here, let's get loose:
10:14:42 PM moxanot: www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks1/maths/dice/twelve.htm
10:15:07 PM noxioushamster: 9
10:15:11 PM moxanot: 8
10:15:19 PM moxanot: 4
10:15:19 PM noxioushamster: oh well
10:15:26 PM moxanot: 1
10:15:28 PM noxioushamster: wow
10:15:30 PM noxioushamster: i got another 9
10:15:33 PM moxanot: dude.
10:15:35 PM moxanot: nice.
10:15:40 PM moxanot: third roll!
10:15:49 PM noxioushamster: 5
10:15:53 PM noxioushamster: wasn't meant to be
10:16:06 PM moxanot: 995 Where were your in 1995
10:16:10 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:11 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:12 PM moxanot: you*
10:16:20 PM noxioushamster: lots of places
10:16:22 PM noxioushamster: mostly my house
10:16:25 PM noxioushamster: i imagine
10:16:33 PM moxanot: So did John Lennon, and look where it got him.
10:16:40 PM noxioushamster: p good point
10:16:51 PM moxanot: Shot.
10:17:08 PM noxioushamster: !
10:17:46 PM noxioushamster: where were you
10:17:48 PM noxioushamster: in 1995
10:18:23 PM moxanot: hm, I was 6 years old. i was probably lost in a tomb of books underneath the ocean through the passage in the rocks on the shore
10:18:40 PM moxanot: Doobie or not doobie
10:19:05 PM moxanot: 8!
10:19:20 PM noxioushamster: cool!
10:19:26 PM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNrm8I5zF8
10:19:28 PM noxioushamster: i got an 8 too
10:19:31 PM moxanot: shit yes
10:19:42 PM moxanot: AHHHHHGGGGGGH YESS EIGHHHTTTHHHHEEEEE
10:20:21 PM moxanot: 
Asking noxioushamster to connect to us at 192.168.1.104:5190 for Direct IM. (10:20:24 PM)
10:20:27 PM moxanot: DIRECT IM with ME
Attempting to connect to 76.14.17.135:5190. (10:20:34 PM)
10:20:34 PM moxanot: Millenium edition
Attempting to connect via proxy server. (10:20:39 PM)
Direct IM connected (10:20:39 PM)
10:20:41 PM noxioushamster: i've never been so direct with someone
10:20:48 PM moxanot: thanks for smoking
10:20:49 PM noxioushamster: wooooooow
10:21:01 PM noxioushamster: omg
10:21:48 PM moxanot: 
10:22:00 PM moxanot: READ THIS FROM RIGHT TO LEFT
10:22:19 PM moxanot: IN EACH BOX, FROM TOP TO BOTTOM AS IN ENGLISH
10:22:35 PM moxanot: too fast paced?
10:22:40 PM noxioushamster: very strange relaity
10:22:51 PM noxioushamster: where you have to read in reverse
10:23:34 PM moxanot: i don't care, no offense, read it how you want to. You don't have to read it in reverse!
10:23:52 PM moxanot: It's a common misunderstanding, quite rare, that is understood to be obvious that you can't miss
10:23:52 PM noxioushamster: 
10:24:34 PM moxanot: heheh
10:25:22 PM moxanot: Tom, either/or question. Either who do you think you'll interview and about what topic O: what kind of pages you wanna make? or have to make
10:25:59 PM noxioushamster: hmmmm
10:26:07 PM moxanot: 
10:26:10 PM noxioushamster: i was trying to think about who i'd interview and i honestly don't know
10:26:12 PM noxioushamster: ahhhhhh
10:26:16 PM moxanot: lol
10:26:43 PM noxioushamster: i feel like it'd want to be someone not from games
10:27:19 PM moxanot: yes i believe it feels similarly to what you have said in the previous sentence you wrote and was delivered to me at 10:26
10:27:44 PM noxioushamster:
10:27:52 PM noxioushamster: what was that sentence
10:27:59 PM moxanot: i feel like it'd want to be someone not from games
10:28:00 PM moxanot: ""
10:28:01 PM moxanot: ***
10:28:05 PM noxioushamster: hahaha
10:29:58 PM noxioushamster: if i made pages
10:30:33 PM noxioushamster: i feel like i'd want to black out everything i said about game design
10:31:22 PM moxanot: Do you know anyone who does anything not from a video game? But maybe something like something that maybe would be similar to games or would advice in games, like but when game design meets something else, like what the something else collides in an interesting way similar to that but actually like anyone who is doing something not exactly video games but is related in some way…like someone outside who doesn't do game design
10:32:07 PM moxanot: haha, Tom, you're fun to talk to.
10:32:22 PM noxioushamster: haha
10:32:24 PM moxanot: Why do you want to black out everything you said? Do you even remember what you said?
10:32:25 PM noxioushamster: thanks i guess
10:32:51 PM noxioushamster: I feel like I mostly don't know what i'm talking about
10:32:55 PM moxanot: 
10:33:11 PM noxioushamster: haha oh man, i love that
10:33:35 PM moxanot: Well it's good you feel that way because it means whatever you said was not over confident
10:33:45 PM moxanot: You actually included a lot of disclaimers to that in my memory
10:34:26 PM moxanot: But as a guy who is thinking about game design your ideas previously said I think in a way or of sorts is useful and kind of like a way to think about game design from the perspective of a person who isn't doing them, but could understand in the way you explain.
10:34:52 PM moxanot: I'm watching a lot of Reggie Watts, so I'm having fun being circuituous
10:35:14 PM noxioushamster: haha interesting
10:35:48 PM noxioushamster: i guess it's neat to hear that i'm not making a complete fool of myself with my words
10:36:12 PM moxanot: You've performed artfully, Tom, artfully. Let's dredge up an example.
10:36:25 PM moxanot: 
10:36:59 PM noxioushamster: that's a v good grave quote
Offering to send Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.pdf to NoxiousHamster (10:37:58 PM)
10:38:04 PM moxanot: ^Gane
10:38:09 PM moxanot: ^Game
Transfer of file Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.pdf complete (10:38:23 PM)
10:40:11 PM moxanot: Tom where did I put our transcripts
10:40:13 PM moxanot: lol
10:41:09 PM noxioushamster: i don't know!
10:41:27 PM moxanot: 
10:43:54 PM noxioushamster: im reading this game
10:43:58 PM moxanot: k
10:43:59 PM noxioushamster: and it seems really interesting
10:44:01 PM noxioushamster: have you tried it?
10:44:10 PM moxanot: I played one day with my brother
10:44:17 PM moxanot: 1.5 days*
10:44:26 PM moxanot: It started to depress him
10:44:29 PM moxanot: lol
10:45:08 PM noxioushamster: haha oh no
10:46:12 PM moxanot: I found a whole ton of them on 4chan
10:46:18 PM moxanot: there was a thread on the traditional gaming board
10:46:26 PM moxanot: and a ton of pdfs got post
10:47:43 PM noxioushamster: that's pretty cool
10:48:01 PM moxanot: If you're asking me to play with you, I'd play.
10:49:03 PM noxioushamster: i haven't finished reading it yet but isn't it a solo rpg?
10:49:12 PM moxanot: oh yeah it's playable as one
Offering to send Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.rtf to NoxiousHamster (10:49:29 PM)
10:49:35 PM moxanot: This is our characters
10:49:39 PM moxanot: + story so far
Transfer of file Hikkikomori- Stay Inside.rtf complete (10:49:51 PM)
10:50:51 PM moxanot: Our hikikomoris are sort of friends, sort of
10:50:58 PM moxanot: because one of them is addicted to amphetamines
10:51:13 PM moxanot: and once he was on them and sat outside the door of the other and talked ot him
10:51:30 PM moxanot: They live in the same building and sort of talk to each other
10:51:53 PM noxioushamster: this is great!
10:53:24 PM noxioushamster: yeah, I'd play this with you
10:53:27 PM noxioushamster: this seems neat
10:55:31 PM moxanot: lol ok
10:55:44 PM moxanot: new game or do you want to take up craig's character?
10:55:51 PM noxioushamster: probably new
10:55:53 PM noxioushamster: if that's ok
10:55:54 PM moxanot: k
10:55:58 PM noxioushamster: though il ike craig's character
10:56:38 PM moxanot: www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks1/maths/dice/
10:56:40 PM moxanot: ^dice
10:56:49 PM noxioushamster: v nice
10:56:52 PM noxioushamster: i have no real dice
10:56:58 PM moxanot: me too
10:57:03 PM moxanot: i like them though, i used to have a lot
10:57:06 PM moxanot: dunno where they went
10:58:07 PM noxioushamster: yeah don't get me wrong im no dice hater
10:58:46 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: I feel like, the biggest piece of advice I would give about game design is
1:35:56 AM NoxiousHamster: Never trust anyone who claims to know about game design
10:58:55 PM moxanot: first thing you said
10:59:15 PM moxanot: moxanot: what if voldemort steve jobs says it?
1:37:13 AM NoxiousHamster: i think we can all agree on certain exceptions
10:59:26 PM noxioushamster: ahhhh man it's such a huge trap
10:59:38 PM moxanot: huh?
11:00:02 PM noxioushamster: i mean, me saying that is basically giving myself an out for anything i ever say after that right?
11:00:14 PM moxanot: hahaha
11:00:20 PM moxanot: by the way, it's hard to play this game without voice
11:00:26 PM moxanot: I think…maybe it isn't
11:00:31 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:00:39 PM noxioushamster: you sound unconvinced
11:00:41 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: haha, I mean, obviously lots of people know really useful and important things about game design, and obviously some people know more than others, but there are so many different approaches to it. There are people you can learn from, but game design is a soft skill, not a hard skill.
1:40:30 AM NoxiousHamster: DEFINITELY don't trust me
11:01:06 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster: I feel like, game design is such a bizarre and malleable thing. Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design. Sometimes things that are bad are good, but sometimes not. Games will come out that people love, but those same people will freely admit to massive game design failings. In no way am I qualified to talk about game design. Game design is an impossibility. People can't even agree on what a game IS.
1:52:01 AM moxanot: haha there we go
11:01:28 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:01:39 PM moxanot: You have enough Reggie Watts in there, I don't think it's a trap
11:01:58 PM moxanot: I have enough credibility where the reader will know I didn't miss you trapping them/me
11:02:22 PM noxioushamster: haha yeah, i dunno, i guess i still agree with myself
11:02:43 PM noxioushamster: i usually think back on things with a soft memory and imagine i said things worse than I might've
11:03:24 PM moxanot: moxanot: Right, you said it's a soft skill. What is the difference between hard and soft skills?
2:03:10 AM moxanot: where else are you going to see gameplay like this, where will you ever see graphics like this, or the visceral feeling of john madden telling you your meaty men are doing well on the field
2:04:21 AM moxanot: 1. "Sometimes in order to do things that are worthwhile, you have to do things that are dumb and horrible and things that go against what almost everyone would agree is good game design." An example in which you did something dumb and horrible that was worthwhile.
2:04:27 AM NoxiousHamster: The line is blurred in a lot of cases, but a hard skill can be something like fixing a car. You have this car and it's battery has died and it won't run. So in order to get it to run you need to replace the battery and you've accomplished your goal. You can go to school and learn how to solve all sorts of car problems and you can very easily measure someone's automotive fixing skills. A soft skill, like game design, isn't really something that's easy to measure. There's no right answer to most game design questions. It's all very subjective.
11:04:28 PM moxanot: ok, yeah, just giving you some samples
11:04:57 PM noxioushamster: yeah, i appreciate it. we had some cool bits of conversation
11:05:14 PM noxioushamster: you're a really good interviewer btw, i dunno if i told you
11:05:52 PM moxanot: NoxiousHamster, that's somethin, thank you.
11:06:56 PM noxioushamster: haha. you always seemed like you understood exactly what i was trying to say and you would push it deeper and make me elaborate and really think about things
11:07:30 PM noxioushamster: so yeah, GOOD STUFF!
11:08:30 PM moxanot: Yeah reading back, I'm glad I got you to define things and quoted you to yourself
11:08:47 PM moxanot: Those are both funny, and good interviewing practices
11:08:55 PM noxioushamster: haha definitely
11:10:24 PM moxanot: hm, do you really want to play this hikikomori game? I'd kind of like to play a different one. I just like the idea because it's what I like about game design, even if it's haunting and makes one feel bad or similar to a hikikomori
11:11:20 PM noxioushamster: you'd like to play a different game or a different iteration of this one?
11:11:39 PM moxanot: different game
11:12:37 PM noxioushamster: got it, yeah that's fine! I think reading what you and your brother did was interesting and gave me a nice idea of how this would have worked
11:14:50 PM noxioushamster: have you seen Tetsuo: The Iron Man?
11:15:16 PM noxioushamster: it feels like you probably would've
11:15:54 PM moxanot: I have started it before
11:16:07 PM moxanot: suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/homebrew.html
11:16:14 PM moxanot: ^a list of tabletop games
11:16:33 PM noxioushamster: cool
11:19:18 PM moxanot: pick one and I'll try it. Oh yeah! I thought of a tabletop game idea. you have to play out your entire life in one hour. you use the browning equation to determine events
11:19:50 PM moxanot: you choose percentages to split up your life along the lines of certain things like " 35% drawing and 65% family"
11:20:01 PM noxioushamster: oh man
11:20:02 PM moxanot: So there's choice and fate
11:20:13 PM noxioushamster: i like the idea that
11:20:21 PM moxanot: well i guess any dice game has choice and fate, forget that part
11:20:26 PM noxioushamster: you could pour most of your life into something and have a chance of failing at it
11:20:34 PM moxanot: hahah yeah
11:20:42 PM moxanot:
11:20:46 PM moxanot: lol
11:20:49 PM moxanot: brb
11:20:53 PM moxanot: llb
11:20:54 PM noxioushamster: k
11:20:56 PM moxanot: nuyt
11:21:02 PM moxanot: .lib
11:21:05 PM moxanot: ok
Changed status to Idle (11:31:47 PM)
Changed status to Away: I'm not here right now (11:31:49 PM)
Lost connection with the remote user:
Connection reset by peer (11:34:13 PM)
Direct IM disconnected (11:34:13 PM)
11:35:40 PM moxanot: Back. Sorry howlAB business appeared. My associate and I are designing a crime victims' memorial for Orange County. Trying to win a contest. You and me: 1. Game? 2. Find a person to interview who does something else that you're into. 3. zineth pages. 4. Tell me your schedule maybe so I can appear at opportune times.
11:35:40 PM noxioushamster (Autoreply): I'm not here right now
Changed status to Online (11:38:28 PM)
Changed status to Available (11:38:28 PM)
11:38:44 PM noxioushamster: oh wow, that's really interesting
11:38:45 PM noxioushamster: good luck
11:39:11 PM noxioushamster: maybe i'm looking at the wrong places on this site but these seem like games you want to play in person with more than 2 ppl
11:39:33 PM moxanot: oh whoop
11:39:35 PM moxanot: s
11:39:49 PM moxanot: Right, that's why we chose the hikikomori game
11:39:51 PM noxioushamster: also, i'm going to be away from computers from the 22nd until the 30th
11:40:11 PM moxanot: ok
11:40:13 PM noxioushamster: but other than that i don't do much
11:40:39 PM noxioushamster: work from 9 to 6 or 8 ish
11:41:18 PM moxanot: Where do you work again? I am a will-o-wisp when it comes to this stuff.
11:41:31 PM noxioushamster: haha i'm the same way
11:41:36 PM noxioushamster: i'm at EA
11:41:38 PM noxioushamster: on the sims
11:41:44 PM moxanot: Cheers!
11:41:52 PM moxanot: Sköl*
11:42:02 PM noxioushamster: *clink*
11:42:06 PM moxanot: Will Wrong
11:42:11 PM noxioushamster:
11:42:27 PM noxioushamster: though that guy hasn't been on the sims or ea for a long tim enow
11:42:33 PM moxanot: lol
11:42:37 PM moxanot: o
11:42:38 PM noxioushamster: he has his own thing called the stupid fun club
11:42:41 PM moxanot: lol
11:42:43 PM moxanot: o
11:43:08 PM moxanot: I wonder if he eats with Peter Molyneux
11:43:26 PM noxioushamster: i wonder if peter molyneux needs food
11:43:31 PM moxanot: ^
11:43:58 PM moxanot: Who in your wildest dreams would you interview about what they studied or wrote about?
11:44:11 PM noxioushamster: hmmmm
11:44:38 PM moxanot: It can be tied to games. Like for example, I love symbolic logic and the game of logic by lewis carroll, because im just fascinated that math can scramble the logic of linguistics
11:44:59 PM noxioushamster: yeah im tryin to think of who from movies
11:45:01 PM moxanot: And I'd love to know what Carroll thinks of experience design, what he would ask me about it.
11:45:07 PM noxioushamster: that's really cool
11:45:12 PM moxanot: But i would love to ask him about math + linguistics
11:45:15 PM moxanot: and nonsense
11:45:25 PM moxanot: and have him make it clear to other people
11:45:29 PM noxioushamster: there's lots of ppl whose work i really respect but i feel like lots of ppl might not interview well
11:45:39 PM noxioushamster: i would totally read you interviewing lewis carol
11:45:49 PM noxioushamster: also as per my thing, i guess a lot of it would be on me the interviewer
11:46:11 PM moxanot: The quality of the interview depends on the interest of the interviewer and the comfort of the interviewee. It has to be someone who you could make comfortable I guess!
11:46:18 PM noxioushamster: i would totally interview jim jarmusch
11:46:24 PM moxanot: Film!
11:46:38 PM moxanot: That's that. You're interviewing Jarmusch
11:46:43 PM moxanot: about film
11:46:47 PM noxioushamster: haha
11:46:55 PM noxioushamster: (also Sogo Ishii)
11:47:12 PM moxanot: Do you like film as it relates to game design?
11:47:34 PM noxioushamster: mmmm
11:47:47 PM noxioushamster: i feel like, i like mechanics a lot but i'm really into narrative
11:47:53 PM noxioushamster: so i like that aspect of games a ton
11:48:02 PM noxioushamster: and film is obviously very narratively focused
11:48:04 PM noxioushamster: as a medium
11:48:48 PM noxioushamster: Cory McAbee would be really interesting to interview also i think
11:49:29 PM noxioushamster: salvador dali
11:50:06 PM noxioushamster: i would love you to go back in time and interview salvador dali so i could read it
11:50:40 PM moxanot: lol
11:50:45 PM moxanot: YEAH
11:51:17 PM moxanot: That is almost a tease, for you to suggest it. A mean tease. I can't even imagine doing that because it would 'xplode my veins
11:51:29 PM noxioushamster: hahaha
11:51:35 PM noxioushamster: yeah it's way too good
11:55:50 PM moxanot: Hm. I have an impressionistic painter named Crystal Zoodsma. I have another painter named Ashley Fritzsche. I have a film student named India Lombardi-Bello. You could interview one of them.
11:56:23 PM moxanot: They are resistant to me somehow, I am having trouble interviewing them.
11:56:24 PM noxioushamster: i was in a few classes with india
11:59:45 PM moxanot: India Lombardi-Bello <lombai2@rpi.edu>
12:00:16 AM moxanot: 518 860 4143
12:03:43 AM noxioushamster: now you have me thinking about how i would interview all these different ppl
12:09:21 AM moxanot: haha that's good. interview them. with your body
12:09:24 AM moxanot: your body is ready
12:09:48 AM moxanot: Honestly, maybe you could interview a games person who takes a different approach than you.
12:10:34 AM noxioushamster: yeah i need to stew
12:10:34 AM moxanot: My original conception was that an issue would have like MATHEMATICIAN/PHYSICIST-ARTIST/DOCTOR-GAME DESIGNER/PHILOSOPHER-DITCH DIGGER/GRAVEYARD CARETAKER
12:10:43 AM noxioushamster: woah
12:10:46 AM moxanot: but maybe it can be like
12:11:51 AM moxanot: GAME DESIGNERS: GD/PHILOSOPHER - GD/COMPUTER SCIENTIST - GD/ARTIST - GD/FOOL - GD/MATHE - GD/ BUSINESS - GD/ JANITOR - GD/PHYSICIST
12:12:02 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:12:11 AM moxanot: or half GD half artist/doctors
12:12:52 AM moxanot: I wish I could have more cards to mix up at once, but in stead it's gonna be more like, who can I get to do zineth, and who of those people can i get to get them to get others to do zineth
12:13:08 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:13:08 AM moxanot: *bows*
12:13:24 AM noxioushamster: well, i do want to do a thing
12:13:39 AM noxioushamster: so i will be thinking
12:14:00 AM moxanot: Gotcha.
12:14:02 AM noxioushamster: i think im going to zone out until bed, so i'm gonna head off for now
12:14:13 AM noxioushamster: cool talking to you again
12:14:13 AM moxanot: wanna zone out on Shell Shock 2?
12:14:19 AM moxanot:
12:14:26 AM noxioushamster: i don't have that, haha
12:14:33 AM moxanot: If you have a kongregate acct
12:14:42 AM moxanot: www.kongregate.com/games/kChamp/shellshock-live-2?acomplete=shell+shock+li#_
12:14:44 AM noxioushamster: haha omg
12:14:57 AM noxioushamster: i remember this game maker
12:15:09 AM noxioushamster: i used to play literally every flash game that came out
12:15:15 AM noxioushamster: back when that was kind of possible
12:15:33 AM noxioushamster: end of highschool and like freshman college
12:15:49 AM moxanot: haha, newgroundssssss
12:15:58 AM moxanot: my handle is WilliamH114
12:16:42 AM noxioushamster: i feel kinda bad, but i'm kinda in the mood to just space out in front of breaking bad
12:16:45 AM noxioushamster:
12:17:23 AM moxanot: haha no don't feel bad. i am really earnest but I always am. enjoy walter white getting killed!
12:17:28 AM moxanot: *spoiler alert*
12:17:30 AM noxioushamster: noooo
12:17:53 AM moxanot: *gloats*
12:18:10 AM noxioushamster: bet yr feeling *pretty* good right about now
12:18:16 AM moxanot: lol
12:18:30 AM moxanot: someone ruined it for me on facebook, so i thought i'd spread the troll
12:18:50 AM moxanot: *looks pretty*
12:19:03 AM moxanot: hahah don't worry you'll still enjoy it. I haven't watched since season 3
12:19:23 AM noxioushamster: now i don't know if you're serious or not
12:19:36 AM noxioushamster: (i'm only on season 2)
12:19:53 AM moxanot: Talcum paste
12:20:01 AM moxanot: I'm gonna watch Mushishi instead actually
12:20:35 AM noxioushamster: it's a good show
12:20:44 AM noxioushamster: if you like dum spirits
12:21:25 AM moxanot: Is that like dum dum boys
12:21:32 AM noxioushamster: probably
12:21:38 AM moxanot: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVP5xfA3dw8
12:22:08 AM noxioushamster: yeah
12:22:11 AM noxioushamster: exactly like that
12:22:15 AM moxanot: UNGH
12:22:20 AM moxanot: yeah the DROp
12:22:23 AM noxioushamster: haha
12:22:27 AM noxioushamster: ok i'm offf
12:22:31 AM noxioushamster: ttyl
12:22:31 AM moxanot: cya dude
12:22:35 AM moxanot: onLINE
12:22:44 AM noxioushamster: *catches wave*
September 20, 2013
1:17:55 AM moxanot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouya What do you know about this and what new hardware do you think people should be focusing on? People are always so obsessed with new Apple products because they're sleek and well-advertised through word of mouth. Do you notice any companies and products that are doing something unique or really helpful that has appeared?
1:23:24 AM noxioushamster: mmmm, I dunno I was never that interested in the ouya. Hardware in general doesn't really get me too excited for the most part though I know I'm different than a lot of people in that regard. I'm probably the wrong person to ask about what kind of hardware ppl should be interested in. I want to try the occulus rift for the novelty of it, but I think I will throw up.
1:24:15 AM noxioushamster: I guess I really like arcade hardware but that stuff isn't really ever something that will be reasonable for home consumption
1:24:57 AM moxanot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occulus_Rift
1:25:52 AM noxioushamster: yep, that thing
1:27:02 AM moxanot: woahhh
1:28:34 AM moxanot: hatsproductions.com/organtrail.html
1:29:47 AM noxioushamster: lol, I remember seeing this
1:38:48 AM moxanot: If someone were to learn coding, or rather, get on the coding boat more swiftly, how would you recommend they do this? Coding games? What's the most fun and most helpful way of getting straight to being able to have an idea and creating it in code?
1:40:17 AM moxanot: If that's an annoying question with no good answer, say why
1:40:44 AM noxioushamster: i've never tried any coding games but they seem good in theory. I learned to program through classes in highschool but I REALLY learned to program with flash. it was nice because interfacing with the graphics themselves was super easy with it which removed a large aspect of what can be challenging or not fun about making things
1:41:44 AM noxioushamster: but i think most ppl have different answers to this question because most people learned differently
1:41:51 AM noxioushamster: from each other i mean, not just from me
1:41:52 AM moxanot: I started Flash animation with Flash 5. Then it was owned by Macromedia and was designed in a way that I could understand. Like <stop;> could be assigned to a button, so you could stop an action like
1:42:09 AM moxanot: make an interface telling the buttons to do this or that
1:42:31 AM moxanot: But they changed actionscript, I couldn't really learn it. The things that had been simple before started to not work.
1:42:46 AM moxanot: Good point.
1:43:04 AM noxioushamster: I probably had an advantage because I had taken a very basic programming class and new a few of the core things
1:43:06 AM moxanot: I guess this is for those that like us, prefer to learn through graphics.
1:43:18 AM noxioushamster: but i started on AS2 and moved to AS3 after a few years, so it was also a slow ramp up
1:43:28 AM noxioushamster: i started off doing things like writing code on objects themselves and calling stop on buttons
1:43:47 AM noxioushamster: gamemaker is not too bad either
1:43:50 AM moxanot: Thing is, I followed directions to make a button in the new script, and it just plain didn't do what the intructions advised. I tried a few other things but was not encouraged by having lost my abilities
1:43:55 AM noxioushamster: because you can do a lot through the built-ins
1:44:06 AM noxioushamster: but eventually you need to go beyond that to get the functionality you want
1:44:12 AM noxioushamster: so it forces you to learn bits of coding as you go
1:44:42 AM moxanot: I see, yeah. What's up with the Unity engine. I saw that it's free and I downloaded it, but I've never cracked it open so far.
1:44:44 AM noxioushamster: but yeah, everyone learns differently
1:44:50 AM noxioushamster: yeah unity is really great
1:45:07 AM noxioushamster: but if you don't know programming at all you will be probably very lost without tutorials
1:45:31 AM noxioushamster: but it has some on-site tutorials that walk you through some stuff with pre-made assets and gives you all the code you need, it just tells you where to fill it in and stuff
1:46:18 AM noxioushamster: with no prior programming knowledge, it might be a little hard to get into though. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to learn programming but I'd definitelyr ecommend it to learn more about 3D game making or game making in general
1:46:31 AM noxioushamster: but it's still very possible to learn coding through it
1:46:43 AM noxioushamster: it will just be a harder process probably
1:50:39 AM moxanot: I really liked Flash because I could do actionscript and animate
1:50:50 AM noxioushamster: yeah it's a huge advantage
1:51:04 AM moxanot: No wonder apple is all sissy about it
1:51:12 AM noxioushamster: lol
1:52:10 AM noxioushamster: i'm going to bed pretty soon but I'll talk to you later
1:53:03 AM moxanot: cool. talk to you later, Thomas X Astle
1:53:10 AM noxioushamster: haha
Changed status to Offline (2:14:58 AM)
Nov 24, 2013
7:50:03 PM moxanot: Tom do you like the comedy, do you like colored people? ,do you like the bill cosby?
7:50:31 PM moxanot: I find good link to old bill cosby saying things out loud
7:50:39 PM noxioushamster: this is a strange question billy
7:51:01 PM moxanot: It is a strange question, but don't say that about my mother
7:51:17 PM noxioushamster: lol
7:52:05 PM noxioushamster: i hope you realize by now that i'm basically a horrible person who hides from his responsibilities until the last possible moment
7:52:22 PM moxanot: me too
7:52:26 PM moxanot: I like people like me
7:53:07 PM noxioushamster: haha
7:53:16 PM moxanot: I found a little bit of bill cosby pornography but it's not worth sharing
7:53:33 PM noxioushamster: yeah, I think it's enough to know that you found it
7:53:53 PM moxanot: I wonder if there's Will Wright porn
7:53:59 PM moxanot: wait, there's a higher chance actually
7:54:01 PM moxanot: nvm
7:54:19 PM noxioushamster: i feel like there is, but it's probably not serious
7:54:30 PM noxioushamster: which i guess means it's not really porn
7:54:30 PM moxanot: www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/2588970078_742e99b05b.jpg
7:54:46 PM noxioushamster: haha oh wow
7:54:55 PM noxioushamster: the possibilities of the spore editor are pretty great
7:55:12 PM noxioushamster: you can make some pretty grotesquely interesting things
7:56:13 PM noxioushamster: not enough games let you control completely alien creatures
7:59:37 PM moxanot: hm yes! Tom, I have questions. TWO
8:00:08 PM moxanot: (1) What is the appropriate way to do concept art for a game so that the other people can use it?
8:00:52 PM moxanot: (2) Should I publish Zineth one person at a time? I have more than enough to publish about you. It occured to me that I can do short zines instead of journal length zines
8:02:41 PM noxioushamster: 1: I'm not an expert but it probably depends what you're concepting. You can do mood pieces and scenes that are meant to convey atmosphere and tone and feeling more than exact specifications, and you can do things that are more like references for characters and objects and environments so your other artists know what they're supposed to be shooting for.
8:03:41 PM noxioushamster: 2: You can do whatever you want. I think you can probably get away with formatting the zine in any way you choose. I don't personally have an opinion on format for stuff like that, but maybe others might.
8:04:22 PM moxanot: yay
8:04:28 PM moxanot: i appreciate your questions
8:04:36 PM moxanot: answers*
8:04:47 PM moxanot: okay. Tom sup
8:05:56 PM moxanot: Tell me something that doesn't involve work or art or anything
8:06:08 PM moxanot: Or let me down easy
8:06:09 PM moxanot: lol
8:06:16 PM moxanot: Or lead me to water
8:06:18 PM moxanot: so i can splash
8:06:32 PM moxanot: Or do a trick
8:06:50 PM moxanot: hahha like a blackflip or a curtain-hanging
Changed status to Away: I'm not here right now (8:08:55 PM)
Changed status to Idle (8:08:55 PM)
8:09:05 PM moxanot: hahah bye
8:09:06 PM noxioushamster (Autoreply): I'm not here right now
8:09:22 PM noxioushamster: sorry i was washing dishes
8:10:15 PM noxioushamster: uh...this is a good youtube vid
8:10:16 PM noxioushamster: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMupA9_wLcw&list
8:28:33 PM moxanot: Dobermans are strong
8:29:42 PM moxanot: :-0